possible misleading Notice to Owner

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by RK08

A common sense approach should really have been applied by the warden.

If the 'crossing' was in a controlled zone/street ie yellow lines either side then common sense may have been used since crossing or no crossing the intention was for no parking at that location.

[RK08]

The point is that this is a controlled area as per the Zebra, Pelican and puffin pedestrian cossing regs 1997, not yellow lines. It ceased to be part of the regs when they took away the pedestrian lights.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by RK08

The point is that this is a controlled area as per the Zebra, Pelican and puffin pedestrian cossing regs 1997, not yellow lines. It ceased to be part of the regs when they took away the pedestrian lights.

Exactly. Without the crossing present, the zig-zag lines have no meaning whatsoever and it cannot be assumed that they mean the same as yellow line(s)

[green_and_mean]

I wasn't saying the PCN was valid just commenting on why the PA may have issued the PCN. Without knowing the full details its very hard to judge a PCN, had the crossing been removed completely or was it just being upgraded.

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[bribri]

I spoke to the camera operator at the time and a PA who also passed by. Their response was "you are on zigzags". They couldn't understand that the zigzags have no force without the rest of the crossing. As I said in my first post, I feel it is like a marked disabled bay without a sign plate. The intention may be there but it has no validity.
Perhaps the lights were being upgraded but at the time of the alleged contravention they had been removed and so no crossing existed. Or perhaps they were being permanently removed, it is not my position to second guess the council's intentions all I can do is abide by the signs and road markings and so I did.

I think yellow lines are a red herring because the PCN is for stopping on a crossing (see earlier post for full details).

Just to push things along, are there any thoughts about the validity of the PCN itself re: the address to send payment to being on the tearoff strip (again see earlier post for full details).

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[bribri]

Have a look at these images.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...n/scan0003.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...n/scan0002.jpg


My questions are: I know where to pay but where does it say where to send the representations to?

Also, what date is 28 days from date of notice when it allows delivery - presumably I have a little leeway?

Thank you

[buzby]

From memory parking on zig-zags, even if you remain in the vehicle is an 'absolute' offence - mitigation is seldom successful, and if the police were involved, there could be points applied too. Rather than take it 'to the wire' I'd sort this out whilst theres no opportunity for the fine to increase or switch to prosecution. Once the system takes over, us punters rarely win.

[bribri]

The reason for my appeal about parking on zig zags is discussed here:
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...lines-but.html
although in summary it is that the crossing was closed, pedestrian lights had been removed so what force do the zig zag lines have?

I have started this thread becasue it seems to me that the NtO could be invalid as well.

[please return my money]

you have a choice, you can write to LB Haringey at the PO Box address given for payments making an appeal before the 14 day period is up

Alternatively you can wait to receive a document called a notice to owner and appeal on that.

However parking on zig zags is not only dangerous to the vehicle passengers and pedestrians, its also an immediate offence but you may get off on a technicality as ive seen others doing it.

[please return my money]

sorry just re read the documents you put as attachments it looked more like a parking ticket than a notice to owner.

Send in your representation to Haringey at the PO Box address listed and be quick.

If they refuse your appeal, let us know when you receive their refusal together with details of the next stage of appeal xxxx

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[green_and_mean]

SCHEDULE 6 Parking Penalties


The notice to owner

1 (1) Where—
(a) a penalty charge notice has been issued with respect to a vehicle under section 66 of this Act; and
(b) the period of 28 days for payment of the penalty charge has expired without that charge being paid,
the London authority concerned may serve a notice (“a notice to owner”) on the person who appears to them to have been the owner of the vehicle when the alleged contravention occurred.
(2) A notice to owner must state—
(a) the amount of the penalty charge payable;
(b) the grounds on which the parking attendant who issued the penalty charge notice believed that a penalty charge was payable with respect to the vehicle;
(c) that the penalty charge must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date on which the notice to owner is served;
(d) that failure to pay the penalty charge may lead to an increased charge being payable;
(e) the amount of that increased charge;
(f) that the person on whom the notice is served (“the recipient”) may be entitled to make representations under paragraph 2 below; and
(g) the effect of paragraph 5 below.

No mention of the need for an address

[bribri]

I have handed my response in but the PO box given is in the section how to pay, not in the section about representations. I know that by handing my response in I am almost negating my argument as I have found some one to take it but if I was out of town and posting it, it does not state an address for representations.

[bribri]

This reference The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (Wales) Regulations 2008 No. 608 to Wales clearly states information about addresses.
I note from the sub references in G & M's reply that the London authorities set a standard for this matter. Any idea what it is ?

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by bribri

This reference The Civil Enforcement of Parking Contraventions (Representations and Appeals) (Wales) Regulations 2008 No. 608 to Wales clearly states information about addresses.
I note from the sub references in G & M's reply that the London authorities set a standard for this matter. Any idea what it is ?

You cannot have received an NTO under the legislation you quoted since it only came into force on 31st March (ie first NTOs sent out 27th april) your PCN pre dates that so you would have received an RTA 1991 version.

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[bribri]

Hi

I have grabbed a statement form a differnet thread to start this one.

Originally Posted by adampaddam

Now you should put in for costs, I put in for costs on behalf of a person when my Council no contested 4 days before the appeal, I got £40 for him.

I won my case which is referenced on this site somewhere - I may find it later. The basics were that I parked on the white zig zags of a zebra crossing. But the pedestrian lights had been removed and the crossing was closed - barricaded. Thus no crossing, thus no contravention. At every step of the way I pointed this out to the council. I kept being told that I was parked on the zigzags. No-one was prepared to see that in this instance they were just pretty white lines. So eventually I get a statement form the transport for london engineer that the crossing was closed and a week or two before appeal hearing the LA (Haringey London) withdraw.

I do feel that they should recognise that they caused worry, time and resources to pursue this and no word of apology. So what precedent is there for claiming expenses and a little something when it has not recieved a PATAS ruling? Because I do feel that if PATAS had ruled they would have said the LA was vexatious.

Thank you

[reallymadwoman]

bump

[bribri]

Finally got round to doing an update.

I appealed to tribunal and had a statement from a chief engineer at Transport for London to say that the crossing lights were removed and the crossing point was sealed off.

So after explaining at every single point in the process that there was no crossing so the zigzags had no force, Haringey withdrew before the tribunal sat.

Is it likely I can now claim expenses, time, postage and calls; against Haringey cos they could have agreed a long time ago?

[bribri]

Hi

I got caught out for parking in a section of residents bay whilst displaying a blue badge and time clock. Hackney unlike most London boroughs does not allow this. It is gutting cos there was a stretch of meter bays on the same street I could have parked in.

Any way. Any suggestions? PCN photos attached.

front pcn http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...n/frontpcn.jpg

back pcn http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/l...on/backpcn.jpg

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[bribri]

surely someone must spot an angle that is worth trying

[bribri]

surely someone must spot an angle that is worth trying

whoops...