possible misleading Notice to Owner

[bribri]

Surely I am not wrong on this one but i await for advice.
I stopped on some zig zags where the lights had been taken away.

Is that an offence. Logic tells me that it is like a marked disabled bay without a signplate. You need both to be legit.

Can anyone confirm this please?

Thank you

[ab123uk]

Hi,

Zig Zags are no parking, as per a plate, dont know how they'd go without the sign?

As far as I'm aware they're not disabled parking either, there placement outside schools is a safety issue so cant see how tehy could allow disabled to park. you could check with local council?

[RK08]

The Zig Zags regulations are set out in The Zebra, Pelican and puffin pedestrian cossing regs 1997.

A Pelican crossing shall be indicated by -
(a) the placing at or near the crossing of traffic signs of the size, colour and type specified in Schedule 2;

(b) the placing on the carriageway to indicate the limits of the crossing of road markings of the size, colour and type specified in Schedule 4.
(3) A Puffin crossing shall be indicated by -
(a) the placing at or near the crossing of traffic signs of the size, colour and type specified in Schedule 3;

(b) the placing on the carriageway to indicate the limits of the crossing of road markings of the size, colour and type specified in Schedule 4.

Schedule 2 states

Traffic signs

2. The traffic signs which are to be placed at or near a Pelican crossing shall consist of a combination of -
(a) vehicular light signals;

(b) pedestrian light signals; and

(c) indicators for pedestrians,

What sort of crossing was it?

[bribri]

The crossing was some form of light controlled crossing (pelican or puffin not zebra) however the lights have been taken away so my point is the zig zags cannot stand alone.

[RK08]

If the lights have been removed i would be inclined to dispute the ticket however who issued it and what was the offence code

[bribri]

I entered a car park by taking a ticket from the machine but before doing so there was no board listing the cost of parking.

I'm sure that runs contrary to contract law but all I recall is Thornton and Shoe Lane Parking re: terms and conditions.

I would like to reclaim the cost of parking, £5, and importantly have this rectified as I could have discovered that the cost was £40.

Can anyone point me in the direction of relevant case law?

Thank you

[Goldlady]

I am sure that one of the parking experts will answer that. The Thornton case is still good law as far as I know.

I had similar experience - went to the Sage car park in Gateshead and the sign said that the first 20 minutes was free. As I was only going to be ten minutes I drove in. When I came to leave, the machine said I owed 80p. I didn't have any cash on me at all (I am a member of CAG after all ) and the queue behind me had a whip round as more than one of them had experienced similar problem. Apparently the small print (where it is I don't know) says that the free 20 minutes is added onto the first hour's charge so you get an hour and 20 minutes for 80p.

[interesting]

Originally Posted by Goldlady

I am sure that one of the parking experts will answer that. The Thornton case is still good law as far as I know.

I had similar experience - went to the Sage car park in Gateshead and the sign said that the first 20 minutes was free. As I was only going to be ten minutes I drove in. When I came to leave, the machine said I owed 80p. I didn't have any cash on me at all (I am a member of CAG after all ) and the queue behind me had a whip round as more than one of them had experienced similar problem. Apparently the small print (where it is I don't know) says that the free 20 minutes is added onto the first hour's charge so you get an hour and 20 minutes for 80p.

Sorry... this is V PROB off topic .. but I am genuinely interested.

WHY have you amassed so many bank charges ... I see your list of claims you have recovered (apparantly) ... but why did you incur them in the first place ???

To me, if you sign a contract saying you will be charged £20 for writing a cheque when there is not enough money to pay it .. then that stands .. but I am sure the test case will show if its legal or not ...

BUT ... You have loads of charges/reclaims .... can you not read or understand what you are signing ??? understand the conditions ?????

Sorry, as I have said .. very much off topic .. but your debts you claim to owe/reclaim is as much as I paid for my first house back many many years ago and I cant understand why someone is stupid enough to run up such charges......

BTW.. someone that can read and understand the t&cs of a bank account agreement hopes the bank will win ... the reality is, if they lose .. the VAST majority of people who can read the conditions and know not to write a cheque if the money is not there will be penalised when all the banks start to charge US for our accounts as a result of a minority who bounce cheques/go over their limits without authorisation then winge afetr about the charges they accepted when opeing the account !!!!!!

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[Goldlady]

Hello interesting I am glad you are interested in my successes. No I am not some thick bimbo who can't understand T&Cs - I am a member of Mensa with a law degree, training to be a barrister! And the vast majority of my bank charges were caused by direct debits (not cheques written unlawfully) which came in a day early and put me pennies overdrawn. NatWest for example ran one of my accounts up to £1000 over after bouncing a payment to the RSPCA for £5 for being about 20p short. I let them play their charges game and did not use the account at all - quite amazing to watch the charges and interest build up. I have never written a cheque without having the money to cover it.

So not stupid at all really - and have had a very interesting life thank you.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Alianmid]

Much applause to you Goldlady - Got him right between the eyes!

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by Goldlady

...I am a member of Mensa with a law degree, training to be a barrister!

A-ha...But as a Geordie, can U speak/understand English??...

Originally Posted by Goldlady

...So not stupid at all really...

I always thought Goldlady = A woman??... <runs + hides>


...

[bribri]

thanks for the diverting interlude but it doesn't help answer my original question.

So stop talking at the back - yes you - you know who you are.

Thank you

[MilkTrayMan]

...

[bribri]

I have now received my PCN issued by Haringey Council from a mobile camera operator.

It has date of issue and date of notice. Cost of penalty, applies to person who appears to be the owner, must be paid before the end of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice etc. So I don't believe there is any error with the notice. Although. The contravention is "Stopped on a pedestrian crossing and/or crossing area marked by zigzags." There is no offence code - is that correct?

I am also trying to confirm based on RK08's earlier posting whether the crossing existing as the pelican or puffin lights had been removed. i.e surely zigzags on their own (as per RK08's posting) do not a crossing make?

Thank you

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[bribri]

Some additional thoughts and if I'm right, very important ones.

A PCN must contain "the address to which payment is to be sent"
The Barnet case says the tear off strip is not part of the PCN
On my PCN the detials of how to pay are on the tear off strip
thus the PCN is invalid. Am I right?
On the back of the PCN it has how to challenge and photos of the alleged contravention.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[RK08]

Just picked up your reply and am looking into it will post back later

[patdavies]

To repeat much of what RK08 has stated above, but using more up-to-date law.

This is from the TSRGD 2002

Road marking shown in diagram 1001.3: zig-zag lines - no stopping
27. - (1) In this regulation and regulation 28 -

• "controlled area" means a length of carriageway -

• (a) which is adjacent to a signal-controlled crossing facility and has a zig-zag line marked along each of its edges (with or without zig-zag lines also marked down its centre); and
  
  (b) in or near which no other signs or markings have been placed except ones comprised in the combination of signs and markings indicating the presence of the facility or shown in diagram 610, 611, 612, 613, 616, 810, 1029 or 1062;

This is the diagram from the regs.

I would opine that without a crossing of the prescribed type, there can be no offence

[RK08]

Patdavies good bit of info and to back this i have asked around with a very very big law type company who have confirmed that if all the elements of the crossing are not present then the crossing is not complete. 'It would not be in the public interest to prosecute'
The whole idea of the zig zag lines are to afford pedestrians and motorists a good view of the crossing and approaching vehicles. A common sense approach should really have been applied by the warden.
I would be inclined to fight this one.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by RK08

A common sense approach should really have been applied by the warden.

Since when do parking attendants have common sense? They are only interested in meeting their quotas. The bandits.

[RK08]

Quite right, quotas and money. Interesting to see the council in questions website and what they have been nominated for