Private parking

[MattVics]

Hi
Please can anybody offer some advice,

I parked in a loading bay on two seperate occasions and recieevd two ticekts - the first was issuwed using CCTV so didn't pop through my letter box till a month later and the other was stuck on my windscreen.
i have since gone back to look at the signs which are clear and say that i am entering a contact if i park in the bay and state how much the penalty would be - i didn't read these when i parked in the bay.

I wrote a letter to the car parking enforcement agentcy saying that i woudl be prepared to fight these tickets as the internet one didn't state what the parking contravention was or time seen in the contravention and i did offer to give them £50 (price of one of the fines) hoping they would accpet this and close my file, - i have not heard back as yet.
i have since read the other posts informing me taht i should ask for proof of who was driving but as there is plenty of CCTV in this area i expect they may have this,
can anybody please tell me if i have to pay these 'charges' as i feel £50 for 30 mins in a loading bay is somewhat excisvie,
any advice would be greatly appreciated - i have scanned examples of the tickets if this helps anybidy

thanks

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by MattVics

Hi
Please can anybody offer some advice,

I parked in a loading bay on two seperate occasions and recieevd two ticekts - the first was issuwed using CCTV so didn't pop through my letter box till a month later and the other was stuck on my windscreen.
i have since gone back to look at the signs which are clear and say that i am entering a contact if i park in the bay and state how much the penalty would be - i didn't read these when i parked in the bay.

I wrote a letter to the car parking enforcement agentcy saying that i woudl be prepared to fight these tickets as the internet one didn't state what the parking contravention was or time seen in the contravention and i did offer to give them £50 (price of one of the fines) hoping they would accpet this and close my file, - i have not heard back as yet.
i have since read the other posts informing me taht i should ask for proof of who was driving but as there is plenty of CCTV in this area i expect they may have this,
can anybody please tell me if i have to pay these 'charges' as i feel £50 for 30 mins in a loading bay is somewhat excisvie,
any advice would be greatly appreciated - i have scanned examples of the tickets if this helps anybidy

thanks

Hi, Welcome to the forums

What are the headings on the notices you received. Does the wording Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) appear as a heading with the words Road Traffic Act 1991 or Traffic Management Act 2004 or similiar. These are issued by the local councils, TFL.

Were you parked on private land? From wording of the sign it sounds as though you were? The way to handle PCN's is different from the way "tickets" issued by private companies (which are actually invoices) are handled. Assuming that it is an invoice from a private parking company then have a read of this guide which you will find in the stickies section of this forum. Then have a read of the template letters for how to respond.

[MattVics]

Thank you

they are def private parking charges - i have read the guide and will base my follow up letter on this,
i have one more question - there appears to be no details of the contravenetion on the chagre (ie parked in a loading bay) by CCTV which i had in the post - does this have to be included on the information section?

thanks for your advice

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by MattVics

Thank you

they are def private parking charges - i have read the guide and will base my follow up letter on this,
i have one more question - there appears to be no details of the contravenetion on the chagre (ie parked in a loading bay) by CCTV which i had in the post - does this have to be included on the information section?

thanks for your advice

What you have is not a "ticket" for a parking contravention but rather an invoice for an alleged breach of contract.

PCN's issued by the councils have to adhere to government rules and case law regarding their formatting. There are no rules or guidance like that applying to invoices. What many PPCs do is mimic the format of real PCNs in a bid to make people think they are dealing with a legitimate and official document. Some of them sail pretty close to the wind on the legal side with the way they represent their documents.

If you were to write pointing out the absence of the contravention information they could, and probably would, re-issue you with an amended invoice.

Your best bet is to use the template letters. Admit nothing and deny their claim. The onus of proof is on them.

Be prepared for a chain of letters insisting you are liable. They may threaten DCA's, County Court Judgements, Bailiffs. They are just threats. Follow the template letters and you should see the drivel dry up.

Any questions or problems then post back.

[Julian Fiddlepot]

Follow the template letters, in the somewhat bizarre belief that they will be new to the enforcement officer who reads them?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Originally Posted by Julian Fiddlepot

Follow the template letters, in the somewhat bizarre belief that they will be new to the enforcement officer who reads them?

I haven't read or heard of a PPC being able to provide the information requested in the template letters. Without that their claim is doomed to fail. If the "enforcement officer" (and thanks for the laugh with that!) is that familiar with them, they should have been able to come up with a credible response.

[Mossycat]

Originally Posted by Julian Fiddlepot

edited

When did the meaning of the word 'legitimately' change then?

Mossycat

[MattVics]

Hello all again

just a brief update - i ahve been following the template letters and replying to each letter i get from the PPC as suggested, i did have a ratheer strange letter quoting the road traffic act 1991 as the refernce they use for the collection of parking charges but just fired off another template letter, needless to say i have now been through the £50. £75 and £135 charges and await to see what the next letter says,
just one thing i need clarification on is that looking back and the signage where i was parked at the time it says something along the lines of you are entering a conatct to agree that if you park here longer than the stated terms (15 mins for unloading) then you will be chaged £75, - therefore by trying to charge me £135 are they themslevels in breah or breaking the agreed terms?
Please does anyone know of this?
thank you very much

[lamma]

If they quoted the RTA 1991 as the basis for their invoice (and are not enforcing on behalf of a council) they are stuffed. Royally stuffed.

Fraud Act 2006 Section 2
2 Fraud by false representation
(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—
(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and
(b) intends, by making the representation—
(i) to make a gain for himself or another, or
(ii) to cause loss to another or to expose another to a risk of loss.
(2) A representation is false if—
(a) it is untrue or misleading, and
(b) the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading.
(3) “Representation” means any representation as to fact or law, including a representation as to the state of mind of—
(a) the person making the representation, or
(b) any other person.
(4) A representation may be express or implied.
(5) For the purposes of this section a representation may be regarded as made if it (or anything implying it) is submitted in any form to any system or device designed to receive, convey or respond to communications (with or without human intervention).


Ignore them from now on. Copy the paperwork and make an official complaint to the police.

Also throw in AJA 1970 Section 40 offenses - which many many PPCs commit.

Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40
A.6 Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 is concerned
with prohibiting the unlawful harassment of debtors or alleged
debtors. This not only includes making threatening demands but also
false representations that criminal proceedings can be brought for
failure to pay, or pretending to have official status, in collecting debts.
A.7 Contravention of the prohibition above is an offence. Prosecutions
may be brought by the Trading Standards Service.
A.8 Section 40 of the Act extends to England and Wales.
actual text
1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract, he—
(a)harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their
frequency or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;
(b)falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal
proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
(c)falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to
claim or enforce payment; or
(d)utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official characterwhich he knows it has not.

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by MattVics

just one thing i need clarification on is that looking back and the signage where i was parked at the time it says something along the lines of you are entering a conatct to agree that if you park here longer than the stated terms (15 mins for unloading) then you will be chaged £75, - therefore by trying to charge me £135 are they themslevels in breah or breaking the agreed terms?
Please does anyone know of this?
thank you very much

You could argue, quite successfully IMO, that the charges above are invalid under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts regulations as they have not been individually negotiated.

Also you cannot be made to indemnify another party in this manner for breach of contract under the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977.

Have a read of the Private Parking Charges Guide in the stickies section for more details on these elements.

You could also argue that the above charge constitutes a penalty charge as well and is invalid on this ground as well.

[MattVics]

Thank you very much once again - i have just typed my letter to the Police and hope they look in to this for me,

[lamma]

copy all the paperwork and send a letter to the Information Commissioners Office - this is blatant stuff and the company is using your data illegally. tell the Information Commissioners Office you have written to the police and give the Information Commissioners Office a copy of the letter to police in their 'bundle'.