Horrified and angry

[adamna]

An important principle at stake
BBC NEWS | UK | Drivers face tougher litter rules

Apparently Joan Ruddock is horrified and angry when she sees litter being thrown from cars. Well, so am I, but I'm even more horrified and angry at these new proposals, to be piloted in London, rolled out countrywide if they get their way.

£80 fine if you don't tell them who the driver was. Where will this stuff end? Snitch or else.

Remember Cheesy Wotsit woman who was fined for chucking an (almost) biodegrabdable one out the window! How much control do they want?????

[JonCris]

It's all about control.

Controlling what we do, what we eat, what we drink & most importantly, what we think. Pretty soon we'll be told what to wear, one piece dungarees, & everyone thought 1984 was a novel - how foolish

The Stazi would be proud with what this lot have & are doing

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

It's this new idea of if you can't identify the person responsible, blame someone else. Some would say it was an inevitable extension of the compensation/blame culture in civil relationships.
Proposals in the pipeline are to save millions in police investigations by the simple expedient of holding witnesses responsible if they are not able to positively identify the perpetrator.
It will be closely followed by criminalising flatulence and issuing penalties on the simple basis of "the one who smelt it dealt it".
It will all backfire when every one give the name of Tony Blair and/or Gordon Brown or any of their cronies as the perpetrator.

[Mossycat]

I don't get how that is legal.

It says a pilot scheme in London, does that mean that the law is different in London then, how can they hold the RK responsible in one part of the country but not another?

Mossycat

And yes I do agree that's a dangerous principal, how long before private parking companies start wanting the same

[Barnsley Boy]

Seems like standard diversion tactics to me. The country is going down the pan. Hoodies beat up old ladies with impunity and the big answer is.....

Make RK responsible for litter fines as well as parking & speeding.....

Call me cynical........

[JonCris]

These legislators are running amok. Do these idiots really think even the most fervent environmentalist wants this. People to be fined even if they can't recall who dropped the litter from a car.

Guilty until proven innocent.....welcome to nooo labours great new world

After all if caught on camera you could be accused weeks after the alleged 'crime' having been tracked down via your registration number - Also what if as we have already seen happening more & more, your number has been cloned how on earth are going to prove your innocent

& don't think you'll be able to say "that's not my car" you may not because the cloners are becoming much more sophisticated, only cloning from vehicles who's numbers match the original make, model & even colour

Somehow we have to get rid of these people...............sugg estions on a postcard pleeeeeese

[adamna]

Originally Posted by Mossycat

I don't get how that is legal.

It says a pilot scheme in London, does that mean that the law is different in London then, how can they hold the RK responsible in one part of the country but not another?

From the lastest Radio 4 news, they are adding that they are proposing to change the bye-laws in London for the trial.

Now I don't understand how it's being announced as happening in June (in London) on the one hand, and a proposal the change bye-laws on another. They can't both be right.

Where does one find out what's actually happening?

[WebFerret]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Guilty until proven innocent.....welcome to nooo labours great new world

& don't think you'll be able to say "that's not my car" you may not because the cloners are becoming much more sophisticated, only cloning from vehicles who's numbers match the original make, model & even colour

Somehow we have to get rid of these people...............sugg estions on a postcard pleeeeeese

My suggestion is that everyone on mass, on a given day, should replace their number plates with that of Gordon Brown's (our Prime Minister!) and commit as many traffic violations as possible!

I would love to be a fly on the wall when downing street receives all the tickets - lol

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Do these idiots really think even the most fervent environmentalist wants this.

Well now you mention it, it sounds like a great idea to me.

[adamna]

Media focus now being shifted to people dumping whole loads of rubbish rather than cheesy wotsits, but the principle of shifting the sand is the same.

G&M - first they came for the environmentalists...

[pin1onu]

The news reports I heard today said they would be holding the driver not the RK responsible for this charge. Surely whoever throws the rubbish is guilty of the crime. Whoever driver or RK this is irrelevant.

This proposal is complete tutai (Maori word for excrement). Time to write to my MP I think. For all the good it will do. Call me a cynic but this is an example of our nanny state going from the sublime to ridiculous.

Below is a verse from a song which expresses what some might my cynicism but others will say I'm just being a realist..............

It's a ok to murder babies but we really ought to save the whales
We're putting criminals in office cos it's way to crowded in the jails
TV is our teacher now, the schools are overrun by thugs
and children skip their innocence and graduate to sex and drugs
right is wrong and wrong is right
I think I just lost my appetite
Stop the World I wanna getta off........

....I just gotta find a planet where they're interested in Sanity.

[adamna]

So how are they going to find out who the driver was? The BBC ones say owner, but that's not necessarily RK either. Perhaps no one has actually thought this through.

[robin9342]

Yes, I can see where this is going. What happens on a windy day when rubbish is blown about and on camera it looks like it may have come from your car window? Or when you drive past unswept leaves in autumn and your cars airflow blows them up in the air?

Are we now going to see LAs spending huge amounts of money on roadside litter CCTV cameras.

Another nice little earner for the councils


George Orwell was right. He just got the date wrong!

[WebFerret]

Originally Posted by robin9342

George Orwell was right. He just got the date wrong!

No, I think he got the date right - it's just that ALL LA plans go over budget and are NEVER completed on time - lol

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

Well now you mention it, it sounds like a great idea to me.

No change there then

[green_and_mean]

I think the theory is they FPN the driver who either pays or goes to Court and would have to probably implicate someone else in order to get off.

[nogard23]

So what if the vehicle is a taxi? or a bus?

[adamna]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

I think the theory is they FPN the driver who either pays or goes to Court and would have to probably implicate someone else in order to get off.

Which court would that be then?
How many hours devoted to it?
What if you don't know?
What if you can't remember who was in your car?
What if you didn't notice anyone throwing anything out of the window?
What if no-one did?

Yep, great idea.