court summons for 3points...

[kobita1985]

hi all

i received a court summons yesterday.

last year, i got 3points on my license for using my phone.
a month later, i was in traffic, my phone rang and i picked it up to see who was calling (incase it was from the hospital as my mom was recovering from surgery), however i didnt answer because i didnt recognise the numer and placed it back onto the seat beside me.

a couple seconds later, i got pulled over by an unmarked police vehicle. he gave me a fine and 3 points as he said even if you use your phone to look at the time, its "using a hand held mobile device". i accepted it and went to the police station that day and let them know that DVLA already had my drivers license. they said thats fine, they would sign it as having recieved it and all i had to do was pay the fine.
i paid the fine the next day.

however 6 months down the line - yesterday, i received a court summons for the second offense.

i havent been able to find my passport drivers license for about a month now, have ordered a replacement drivers license asap to take with me.

if i've paid the fine and they had my drivers license to put on the extra 3 points, why am i being called to court?

[izzzzythedog]

were missing info hereit will clearly state in the summons what the offence is i will take a stab in the dark and say its for not producing a driving licence and from the past as far as i know your offered an extension not a pardon to produce the licence , write tothe court detailing what you know and see what happens , the judge may dismiss without needing you there

[kobita1985]

but they already had my license. i had to submit it in august.

i went to the police station on the day i got the second endorsement and they signed off as having received drivers license, they said all i had to do was pay the fine.

[Conniff]

So what does the summons actually say ?

[kobita1985]

Offense "on 24.09.08 at London, E1 Drove a motervehicle, namely Fiat Index _______, on a road, namely mile end road, when you were using a hand-held mobile telephone contrary to regulation....."

i called up the court and asked for more details, they say they never received payment.

i've written a letter providing

1. Summons sheet - pleading guilty to the above offense and financial details.
2. statement of facts (see below)
3. appendix 1 - FPN for above offense, SHOWING SECTION WHERE POLICE OFFICER SIGNED FPN TO SAY I PRODUCED MY LICENSE.
4. appendix 2 - bank statement showing payment made for the above offense on October 9th.
5. appendix 3 - FPN of August 08
6. appendix 4 - bank statement showing seperate payment for FPN of August 08
7. appendix 5 - DVLA email confirmation showing application for replacement drivers license as i cant find mine.

2. i've stated the following

- plead guilty to the offense of looking at my fone - "using" it.
- brought to attention the witness statement from the pc confirming i had only looked at my fone.
- accepted responsibility for my actions and made payment.
- informed police officer at station that dvla had my license from the previous month. they signed off the FPN after checking this was true and told me to pay the fine and the points would be put on accordingly.
- i have been unable to locate driving license or counter part, but have ordered a new one and will produce this to the courts on the day of the hearing.

i also wrote two paragraphs on accepting responsibilty, paying my dues, the actions i've taken since the incidents to ensure it does not happen again and brought to attention how i have never been in trouble with the law for anything before or after these incidents. and apologised for any time taken up and how i did everything that was expected of me at the time.

HOPE THATS ALL THE INFO REQUIRED.. if not, let me know.

[crash3903]

If you have produced your licence and paid the fine and you can prove that, then in theory you should be ok


What you should not do, which it sounds like you won't assume, is assume you do not have to go to court and not attend until you have been informed by the court that you do not have to.

When does the summons say you have to attend court? This is important as there are time limits for summary offences to be dealt with by

[kobita1985]

last year my phone rang whilst driving and i looked at it to see who was ringing. without answering i replaced it. i got pulled over by an unmarked vehicle and received an fpn for "using a hand held mobile device".

at the time, the officer argued that although i didnt answer it, even looking at it for the time is "using" it.

i went to the police station that night to get the fpn signed to show i produced my license. i asked again if thats that the case and the officer said because my attention was diverted from the road, this was an offense.

i understand the importance of having your attention on the road, and technically he's right even if you look at a fone to see who's ringing, it is USING it... but are they not pushing it a little..

i paid the fine and accepted responsibility for my actions, i've just been reminded of it as i've been called to court for not making payment. so thought id see what you all thought....

[tiglet]

I'm afraid the police are absolutely correct on this one - even looking down at it is an offence as your attention is distracted.

Expensive lesson, i'm afraid.

[Lula]

Totally agree with Tigs, you dont need to look at it whilst driving, and to stop yourself being tempted put it in the glove compartment, a handbag, a pocket, I still see dozens of people every day using a phone whilst driving, atrocious.

[kobita1985]

is the proof not my bank statement and the fpn signed by the police officer to say they had my drivers license?

i sent all details via recorded delivery, but just incase they have any queries, i've alreadyy taken the day off for friday 25th to attend the hearing, i'll be taking my drivers license (which arrived yesterday) and all documents and statements.

[kobita1985]

oh i also wanted to ask...
i signed the summons sheet to say "i plead guilty and ask the courts to deal with this case in my absence"

however i want to turn up on the day.. is that okay? because i didnt submit my drivers license with the return summons sheet.

[crash3903]

Originally Posted by kobita1985

oh i also wanted to ask...
i signed the summons sheet to say "i plead guilty and ask the courts to deal with this case in my absence"

however i want to turn up on the day.. is that okay? because i didnt submit my drivers license with the return summons sheet.

This sounds odd if you have already paid and sent your licence off. Why are you pleading guilty if you are not. You will now get hit twice??

Also the 25th is outside the 6 months statutory time limit for dealing with summary offences but you may now be in the deep stuff as you have pleaded guilty. I am not too sure you will be able to change your plea and successfully defend your position

[kobita1985]

yea i assumed the same and just accepted it. i just think its a lil far out, cos ur attention can be diverted when you change the radio station, or when i have kids in the back, my attention is always diverted.

but im guessin that comes under driving with undue attention or carelessly or something.

[Bookworm]

2 threads merged, please stick to 1 thread per story, thanks.

[kobita1985]

i plead guilty to the offense at the time, the offense is still the same, and my plea is still that i am guilty for it now - i did get caught looking at my mobile phone. my argument today is i paid my dues, why am i being called on it again.

when i called the courts, they said i hadnt made payment. but i have, and thats why i attach all the appendices - to show i made two payments for two seperate fpns.

the incident occured on 29th september.

[crash3903]

If I understand you correctly, you have done what was asked of you - Paid the fine and sent your DL off. So when the summons arrived they are saying you haven't done those things but you have so how can you be guilty. If you go to court they will fine you again for the original offence so you pay twice. See my logic?

What should have happened is that you plead not guilty and produce the evidence that you have mentioned. If you are at all unsure, you should speak with a solicitor before the day and see if you are able to change plea and go fight your corner

Also don't forget about the statutory time limits

[kobita1985]

oh i think i see wat yu mean.

i was pleading guilty to the offense they sent - which i am. but also providing evidence that i had already plead guilty and accepted responsibility and paid my dues.

i'll attend the hearing despite having said i would like the court to decide in my absence.

theres also two dates on the summons - one is Dated 08.02.08 with details of informant, accused, hearing etc. am guessin this is the date when the information was passed o the courts to call for a hearing..

the second is 03.04.08 - assuming this is the date summons was printed to send out.

[patdavies]

You can write to the court at any time before the hearing to change your plea; you can even turn up on the day and ensure that the court usher knows that you are there and that you want to change your plea.

You are not guilty of the offence on the summons; as it was dealt with by way of a fixed penalty. You will need to take 3 copies of all your proofs to the court (1 for you to refer to; 1 for the Mags; 1 for the CPS)