Council PCN's are becoming a joke! Got another today!

[DejaVu]

Recently I was issued a PCN when visiting the Job Centre, practically flew in and flew out. A max of 5 minutes! Tried to argue that one, but gave up and paid it. This was in January I think. (Jobsworth Traffic Warden?)

My new one has angered me a lot more. I went to visit my cousin this morning as I hadnt seem him in a while and is not too well at the moment.

I parked in the parking area outside his flat (where I have before) and didnt think nothing of it, in there about 2 hours helping him out round the place.

When I came out, the Parking Attendant was busy taking photo's of my car, I asked her what she was doing only to be told I needed a 'Resident's Permit' to park my vehicle there.

How exactly does this work?

My cousin doesnt drive and the council, to his knowledge have never issued him any 'Residential Permit' since living there (five years). He also gets loads of visitors, it just seems like I'm the first to be 'fined'. So he's never been able to give anyone anything to put in their windscreen!

If I needed a 'permit' for everyone I know who supposedly lives in a 'permit' zone, my windscreen would be covered in them!

I've visited my cousin in the past, been there for days at one point and never got a PCN then. Why all of a sudden have they started penalising people for visiting relatives.

Surely this has got to be unfair!? Especially as I would have been entitled to park there should my cousin have learnt to drive and got issued a few 'Resident Permits'?

Seems to me like the council is getting too money hungary and it's not as if the council tax payments arent enough these days already!

I'll scan the PCN in a second and post it in here.

The reason for the PCN according to the offence -

Parked in a residents' or shared use parking place without clearly displaying either a permit or voucher or pay and display ticket issued for that place'

I am going to argue this. But I want/need the right approach to do so. I'm no great with words and wont do it til I calm down a bit!

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[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by DejaVu

How exactly does this work?

Permit bays are marked both on the road and with sign posts

Residents can apply for an annual permit for their own car or for visitors permits (which are usually scratch cards you throw away afterwards).

I have yet to hear of a Council that requires you to drive to apply for visitors permits.

Just because you never received a PCN before doesn't mean its unfair. Since you don't seem to have even bothered looking for signs before or after getting a PCN, you may actually find if you look its at certain times only so previous visits may have been outside controlled hours.

Despite what most people think most Councils make very little from permit schemes if anything. The cost of the initial consultation, marking out the bays, enforcement and staff to process applications etc is very expensive and a lot of the time only just breaks even.

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[DejaVu]

Ridiculous BS IMO! You are practically asking the Council for permission to have visitors.

The sign's where the PCN was issued state.
"Permit B Holders Only. At all times."

Might as well state 'No visitor's allowed, unless prior arrangement with the council has been obtained and that you have a special sticker in your window to say your a Permit B Holder's Mate!'

In these bays, there are no yellow lines, most spaces were empty because residents were at work, I was only there 2 hours between 9:30 and 11:30am and was NOT causing any obstruction.

I feel penalised because of the area where my cousin lives and nothing more.

Visit ANYONE else, I wouldnt get a fine. It's because his area is quite close to the town centre and they dont want people parking there for free and running off to the town.

Surely, if I argue I was visiting relatives with no visitor scratch cards because they are too slow to give them out (I've since spoke to his neighbour and she has nothing to give visitors either, and they have a car!)

He's lived there for 5 years, with no information from the council about this. It's only been an issue since this morning, when I got a ticket. All his neighbours are now getting worried about their visitors as well!

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[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by DejaVu

Ridiculous BS IMO! You are practically asking the Council for permission to have visitors.

The permit does nothing to restrict you having visitors!!? Its a PARKING permit not a permit to allow visitors.

Most of the spaces were probably empty because all the others without permits bothered to read the signs BEFORE they parked. No doubt this was another jobsworth like the one that gave you a ticket whilst you parked on Double yellow lines (a restriction not that hard to understand!) to go to the job centre?

[DejaVu]

Are you a traffic warden yourself? Seems like your on there side!

I'm asking for information about if it's enforcable, not whether or not they are doing their job!
I dont visit Consumer Action Group to be criticised!

ALL TRAFFIC WARDENS ARE JOBSWORTHS. With no Leaway for anyone! FACT!
Even Police Officers use discretion sometimes! Traffic Wardens DONT!

The permit does nothing to restrict you having visitors!!? Its a PARKING permit not a permit to allow visitors.

It's the SAME thing! Or do I need to park 3 miles away from where my cousin lives to park up? I might as well have walked there!

It's not as if cars cost a fortune to run already without being penalised for the stupid minor offences like parking!

[Michael Browne]

Or do I need to park 3 miles away from where my cousin lives to park up

No , your cousin, as a resident, can obtain books of visitor permits from the council

[DejaVu]

Originally Posted by Michael Browne

No , your cousin, as a resident, can obtain books of visitor permits from the council

Why should he need to though? Why are they not sent out automatically? Can he write a letter explaning he had none, even though he has asked for some in the past and never recieved them!?

It seems totally ridiculous to me and I am pretty rared up about it at the moment. I will write to them when I'm in a better state of mind.

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by DejaVu

Are you a traffic warden yourself? Seems like you on there side!

I'm asking for information about if it's enforcable, not whether or not they are doing their job!
I dont visit Consumer Action Group to be criticised!

ALL TRAFFIC WARDENS ARE JOBSWORTHS. With no Leaway for anyone!

It's the SAME thing! Or do I need to park 3 miles away from where my cousin lives to park up? I might as well have walked there!

No I'm not a Traffic Warden but at the same time I do bother to look where I park and have yet to get a ticket. You didn't ask for advice you just ranted on about the Council being a joke because you didn't bother to look where you parked. I am a permit holder it costs me £50 a year and it really annoys me when people park without a permit in a space I pay for, so in that respect yes I am on their side. I very much doubt if the nearest pay and display or unrestricted street was 3 miles away but 100 yards is too far for some people.

[Michael Browne]

Why are they not sent out automatically?

The resident has to buy them, usually in books of 10 for about £5 (varies from council to council)

Unless the PCN is incorrect (wrong wording etc) I doubt you will win this one either

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[DejaVu]

The nearest Pay and Display is over a mile away (ASDA). He lives on a large council estate that has Permit Holders EVERYWHERE. I figured, if I did get a ticket because I as visiting, it would not be enforcable if the resident confirmed the fact. Especially as they cannot get organised enough to give residents hundreds of 'scratch cards' every few months.

I wouldn't say I'm ranting about it. More fueled up because our local council has always been incompetent!

The resident has to buy them, usually in books of 10 for about £5 (varies from council to council)

Unbelievable. Obviously, I'm new to this as I've never been at the recieving end of it... But now your telling me he has to PAY to have his visitors park outside his flat! I'm completely shocked!

[Michael Browne]

Originally Posted by DejaVu

I figured, if I did get a ticket because I as visiting, it would not be enforcable if the resident confirmed the fact.
You figured wrong
Especially as they cannot get organised enough to give residents hundreds of 'scratch cards' every few months.
See previous post

I wouldn't say I'm ranting about it.
I would



Unbelievable. Obviously, I'm new to this as I've never been at the recieving end of it... But now your telling me he has to PAY to have his visitors park outside his flat!

Yes

[DejaVu]

OK. Perhaps you think I'm ranting. Maybe I am. It's because I'm annoyed.

If this is indeed the case, my cousin should have been made more aware of the fact at least the odd letter to explain? Let alone the rest of his neighbours.

Surely that would constitute incompetence?

And I suppose, me being the driver, instead of a resident should have been more aware of it somehow. Even though I live no where near a 'Resident Permit' zone and have never had the urge to research it!? Driver fault I suppose!?

[Michael Browne]

Driver fault I suppose!?

Yep, 'fraid so. Still now you know about DYL and permit parking. What's next...... Red Routes, Congestion Zones?

[DejaVu]

Sky's the limit! LOL

Oh well, I'll try to put in a request to quash the PCN on grounds of 'enlightenment', but dont think it'll hold much water!

So many Rules and Regulations around parking. It does get a little 'grey' sometimes.

Thanks for the input.
Sorry for the Rant.

No hard feelings G&M. Just heat of the moment I guess.

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[darling1]

Everyone is being a bit harsh on you Dejavu! You must be really angry - I know I would be - but even though the truth hurts - it could have been put more tactfully MB and G&M!
A guest came to my house and parked outside - we are residents parking and she stood just inside my door to deliver my daughter, and in the few mins that it took, the traffic wardens managed to put a ticket on the car without us noticing! In our area there is two hours allowed inside marked bays - but the lines have all been worn away - my friend paid up straight away, the advice I got here was to fight the ticket as the lines had gone - she was infact on what was once a single yellow line. she could not have known that - but she isnt going to appeal as they are so hot on collecting cash round here that they never listen anymore
I also get cross about folk parking in "our" area, and going off to town, but still think that there should be some discression used now and again by the parking maffia, it is really becoming rather stressfull, trying not to fall foul of all these rules! IMHO!!

[darling1]

posts crossed!! dejavu

[Michael Browne]

The only other possibility is if the bay markings are wrong, (surprisingly they often are)

See here for correct and incorrect variations:
Making a challenge

[DejaVu]

Thanks for backing me up darling1.

But I can see where MB and G&M are coming from, the Law is the Law.

It is just highly frustrating when you are at the recieving end.

Makes you feel like a criminal, just because you need to stop your car!


@Michael Browne
Interesting link, but the Car Port/Parking area I was in had NO markings at all, no DYL or spaces marked at all.
Does that make a difference?

[DejaVu]

Just to add though, in other parts of the estate, entrances to these parking area's state 'Permit Only' on the floor. I reckon it did say it once at the entrance to his parking area, but has been seriously 'rubbed off'.

[green_and_mean]

Since you have calmed down and are being nice I'll repond more constructively! If the roads are on a 'council estate' they are not usually enforced in the same way as 'normal' roads so take a few photos of where you were parked and post them here. Also post a copy of the PCN the laws changed on monday so depending on when you got it there is more chance its technically incorrect.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.