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Old 13th March 2008, 10:24   #1 (permalink)
Shameful charge
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Default Shameful London C Charge website !

You register on the C Charge website giving your inclination that you will be a willing payer of he C charge when you enter.

I planned a journey which I thought would miss the C charge Zone.

A day later I double check to see if there is any outstanding C charges just in case. (I thought with the massiv amount of tax payers money that a system would be in place to notify registered users that they had breached the "C charge tax [edited] zone"

I see the option to "pay C charge for yesterday" in big green letters.
on the website so I assume I breached the zone and paid £10.00

Then I checked today when I was nowhere near London the yesterday and the same message "Pay the C charge for yesterday" is clearly stated.

This has made me fume .........

1) WHY DOES THE C CHARGE WEBSITE SUGGEST A PAYMENT FOR YESTERDAY WHEN THEY VERY CLEARLY HAVE A DATABASE OF WHO WAS IN THE C CHARGE ZONE FROM THE EXPENSIVE CAMERAS THEY HAVE UP AND OBVIOUSLY KNOW THAT YOU WAS NOT !

2) WHY DO THE C CHARGE PEOPLE (KEN LIVINGSTONE etc) NOT ADVISE YOU BY EMAIL (ESP WHEN YOU HAVE REGISTERED) THAT YOU HAVE ENTERED THE C CHARGE ZONE, SO THERE IS NO AMBIGUITY.
(MY GUESS IS THAT WAY THEY CAN STUFF YOU FOR A PENALTY FEE LATER ON IF YOU ARE UNAWARE YOU BREACHED THE C CHARGE ZONE)

THE CAMERA DATA AND WEBSITE DATA SHOULD BE LINKED, THIS IS
UNBELIEVEABLE THAT IT ISN'T CONSIDERING THE COSTS OF THIS SYSTEM.

I am disgusted with this website as it is very unclear and seems to be based on pure profiteering, it's akin to something that should be on BBC's watchdog in my opinion.

In fact I think I will direct them to this thread right now.

Last edited by Bookworm; 13th March 2008 at 12:43. Reason: libelous comments removed.
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Old 13th March 2008, 11:33   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful, THIEVING London C Charge website !

As a lot of people will testify to they DON'T do refunds either.

We pre paid for five days in the zone but only used three. Applied for a refund with no joy
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Old 13th March 2008, 11:48   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful, THIEVING London C Charge website !

I had a similar thing - I travel into town quite often in the evenings and most often arrive after congestion charging time. On one occasion I realised I had got to my destination early - the M4 was unusually clear.

This led me to wonder whether I had entered the zone and needed to pay. I genuinely didn't know and couldn't figure it out.

I phoned them the next day and asked them to confirm whether I had entered the zone during the chargeable period and was told that this info wasn't available to them for three days.

Yet unless I paid before then I would risk getting a penalty.

So, I asked if I could pay and then have a refund if it turns out I didn't need to.

No chance - no refunds.

Iniquitous!
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Old 13th March 2008, 12:37   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful, THIEVING London C Charge website !

Quote:
As a lot of people will testify to they DON'T do refunds either.
I can testify the contrary. BUT, BUT.
You have to see inside as to how the system works, it's like the BORG.
When you go in and they are alseep, as usual, you can get things put right.
I will publish how I did this on the insight thread.
It requires a considerable amount of perception and logic, yet was very very simple in the last resort.
The were compelled to back down, and cancel a £50 PCN, then refund £10 I paid stating 'this is being paid, but' I will seek a remedy, or retribution if not.
Tolerance is NO match for zero tolerance. ONLY contrary zero tolerance IS.
Be patient you will see it all soon.
Neil Herron also has had a refund.
In conclusion, you are right to say what you said.
For 99.999 pecent, the system is a wall of steel, sorry STEAL.

Last edited by Medusa; 13th March 2008 at 12:45.
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Old 13th March 2008, 13:06   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful London C Charge website !

I am all ears medusa - enlighten us
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Old 13th March 2008, 15:20   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful London C Charge website !

Please bear with me a day or two.

I am just completing the analysis of the fallacy of independence, impartiality, and account - ability at

http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/Injustice/independent.html
Worth a re-look now.

Many rulings at PATAS, LGO, and similar indendant bodies are not without some fallacy or another SO FAR, I haven't see a clean one.

In the above one by TfL

They used an obscure form of reasoning that is where a true conclusion can be implied by any false premiss, and to re-enforce it they used it in the negative, ie the obverse of its contrary to COVER up the hidden fault.

I will give you the SINGLE line that was the obstacle.

Off the top of my head, without double checking, it will be done properly.

I received a letter saying in one of its lines

because we have not received a correctly completed renewal application form, your exemption has expired!”

After a week of not knowing about it.

That sentence was a true proposition in the calculus of logic.

How does one tell a truth and cover a lie?

That's the interesting bit. How to prepare sworn statements of truth for a court, that cover implied falsities, and not get caught, except by the very perceptive looking at the argument forms of the propositions, and the play on sense and reference in similar terms (Frege) from their literal sentences.

That is being shown in the other case, that reached 700 pages, cost the council £4k and has not finished, despite their withdrawing everything, and asking to cancel the proceedings, which was refused.

A prepared short 8 page case, was sent to TfL, ready for the high court, and the EU if necessary, since there is far too much evidence of the trail of this thinking mendaciously through all the lower courts when a case is against a body with some .gov.uk at the end.



It's first line, the 8 page prepared traversal, was;



"A procedural impropriety occurred, it was concealed".
It continued. in effect with "YOU look for it in your telephone recordings and exchanges."


I warned them I had not finished, after their backing down that was a disgrace taking nearly two months, cancelling and refunding, as I wanted to show two entry traps, and receive an apology.

Since they are NOW themselves out of time I gave them, I will prepare the insight for others to understand and use, but as I said it is difficult to perceive, since the proposition from the sentence delivered, was a true proposition.

Manufactured by subtle overlays of implication.

They will probably not repeat the same phrase, but understanding the logic is essential and probably too difficult for many here.

Hence I need to simplify it as a common fallacy to be found in many legal arguments used by councils today who are out of control with prerogative powers.
That is also being exposed at
http://www.logiclaw.co.uk/Injustice
One letter with some ten contradictions to start with only in three separate lines.

I have given you the two key sentences, in blue, and as you will see upon superficial examination, there is nothing discernible in the language, of sem-antics that discloses the deception. Consider it as a rubic cube type puzzle. See if you can guess what is being covered.

It is a form widely used, and people leave the hearings and courts confused, not surprisingly that's why we have a growing mental health bill, because the neuro linguistic spin is out of control too.
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Old 14th March 2008, 13:12   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful London C Charge website !

I wonder if anyone has yet disambiguated this, and seen what the illogical ambiguity is likely to be. It's very difficult I know, for the average trusting person with no agenda looking for ambiguities, and for me, instinct was the first clue to what I call serious malevolence in this construction.I don't want to usurp your thread, so I copied this all over to mine, leaving yours free for people who may be able to help.Here is the actual sentence. Three stages for you to ponder over the weekend, while I prepare the complete insight.The accurate text is here, it doesn't detract from the form of the one I left beforehand, the FORM is materially equivalent.

As we have not received a correctly completed application to re-register your XXXXX discount, your registration has expired.”

I have continued this on my thread INSIGHT, it'll be there in a minute or so.

Last edited by Medusa; 14th March 2008 at 13:29.
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Old 14th March 2008, 15:03   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful London C Charge website !

Quote:
Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
I wonder if anyone has yet disambiguated this, and seen what the illogical ambiguity is likely to be.
I'm wondering if anyone has understood once again what you are on about?? I appreciate you are trying to be helpful but your posts just read like riddles. Does any normal person really say things like 'That sentence was a true proposition in the calculus of logic'?
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Old 14th March 2008, 19:15   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful London C Charge website !

Quote:
I'm wondering if anyone has understood once again what you are on about?? I appreciate you are trying to be helpful but your posts just read like riddles. Does any normal person really say things like '*That
sentence was a true proposition* in the calculus of logic'?
Hi, THANK YOU for the wonderful comments!

Clearly you either have understood, and 'wonderingly' speak for others, hiding your wisdom, or not understood and speak for yourself, suggesting it is perhaps for others;

EITHER way 'your sense pursues not mine'. Look it up, and complete the phrase, or perhaps you already know it.


Your argument belongs to a set of fallacies stemming from 'argumentum ad hominem', leaning more towards a species of 'Ignoratio elenchi', plus the two below. Look them up too.

In plain terms that only YOU will understand.......

Do you have a contribution to make, or was that appeal to derision ...... IT?

You have the floor, to explain better and simpler to us all, for our edification and your better self esteem.

Please illuminate us all as to WHAT that simple line in plain English from our wonderful rulers, and foolers for SOME, MEANS and how it is the worst kind of malevolence around today from a body we are supposed to trust.

From Shakespeare especially for you.

"Look, he's winding up the watch of his wit; by and by it will strike."

Did you miss that I said it was a riddle, when saying a rubix cube? ( I know I mistyped it )

You have the answer, and can show us all without logic then? Can't wait.

Or a suggestion, look them; all four, up, focus better on the argument itself, leaving other fallacies of "appeals to derision" and "appeals to spite ore even pity" alone ,and illuminate us all.

I look forward to your wonderful explanation, since you are the expert. No doubt others will be telling me the same, whence I shall depart since it is a waste of time if you are representative oif the community here in wondering?

You have the floor maestro, I am waitng for that strike. I will take the weekend off, since as you say NOBODY is likely to understand what I say, despite it being clear English.

If all are of like minds to yours, then you can work it out yourselves.

Can't wait!
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Old 14th March 2008, 20:03   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Shameful London C Charge website !

Look, sad dudes aside, purporting their intelligence on the internet,
it is still disgusting what has happenned and must have happened to others.
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