Leased Company took £93 for Private Company PCN. Advice needed.

[rila75]

Hello, Great forum.

I drive a company car. Recently I received a letter from my employer informing me that £93 will be deducted from my salary. They have forwarded me an invoice from the Car Leased Company for: £75 Parking Charge Notice (Which the leased company has paid) from City Parking Enforcement Ltd. - for parking in a free Lidl Car Park + £18 Admin charges.
Do I have any options to get my money back?

1. The Leased Company did not informed me about the fine, but just paid it (On what grounds I have no idea)?
2. The Leased Company did not give me any chance to contest the fine.
3. The Leased Company have no means to know who the driver of the car was
and it is the car driver that is responsible for the "Breach of contract" not the registered keeper.
Has anybody had similar problem and is there a way to get my money back, which were completely unlawfully taken from me?

The PCN is a complete joke, with wrong time on it (from 17:53 to 13:35 on a same date) and of course I never received it. Any advice will be highly appreciated.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Have you authorised this deduction from your salary?
I would ask your employer whare you have provided that authorisation first to stop it coming out of your pay.

[rila75]

According to the Leased contract T&C they can pass on Fines & charges to me. The company I work for is obliged just to inform me about the fine. I could not stop it from being deducted from my salary.
Thanks.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Originally Posted by rila75

According to the Leased contract T&C they can pass on Fines & charges to me. The company I work for is obliged just to inform me about the fine. I could not stop it from being deducted from my salary.
Thanks.

Check the exact word on the lease contract and post them.
Your employer must have your authority to take this money back in this way. It is probable that you have agreed to it but it is worthe checking.

[rila75]

Originally Posted by Bernie_the_Bolt

Check the exact word on the lease contract and post them.
Your employer must have your authority to take this money back in this way. It is probable that you have agreed to it but it is worthe checking.

Here are the exact warding of T&C</p>

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by rila75

Here are the exact warding of T&C:
"You are personally liable for the payment of any fixed penalty notices, car parking fines, speeding penalties and other fines that may arise as a result of breaches of the Highway Code, Local Authority by-laws or other traffic regulations. The Company will not recompense you for such payments, even where these were incurred whilst travelling on Company business. Where the Car Benefit Scheme Administrator, XXX – as the registered keeper of the vehicle – receives a payment notice, they will pay this on your behalf. The charge and the associated administration fee will be deducted from your next salary. No separate notification will be given for this. As a condition of receiving a Car Benefit, you authorise the Company to deduct such charges from your salary or other monies owed to you by the Company."

In which case they have absolutely no grounds to have charged you. You have not been 'fined' in any sense, nor have you breached any Highway Code, LA Bye-Law or Traffic Regulation. A Private Car Parking ticket is an invoice for the specified amount, and an invitation to settle out of court for an alleged breach of contract. This money is being UNLAWFULLY taken from your salary and your Company will be in breach of your Contract of Employment if they do so.

Your best bet is to point out the error in the timing denying that any breach occurred and that their actions have denied you the opportunity to defend the allegation. I would suggest that you arm yourself with some literature on the subject of Private Parking companies and the fact that these differ greatly from 'fines'. I fear however that you will have an uphill battle and much will depend on your relationship with the company you work for. The PPC will undoubtedly only deal with the lease company and will refuse point blank to refund the money and ultimately the only way to get it would be to issue proceedings, probably against the lease company.

[rila75]

Sidewinder many thanks for the advice. Should I write a letter to the legal department of my employer or should I address the Leasing Company? And what are my grounds in both cases? These seams to be very dangerous precedent as by looking in the T&C any PPC can target me very easy.
I must find a way to protect myself. And yes I do understand that PPC issued an invoice, but the Leased Company and my Employer see it as a "Fine". How I can put the thinks right?

Thanks again.

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by rila75

Sidewinder many thanks for the advice. Should I write a letter to the legal department of my employer or should I address the Leasing Company? And what are my grounds in both cases? These seams to be very dangerous precedent as by looking in the T&C any PPC can target me very easy.
I must find a way to protect myself. And yes I do understand that PPC issued an invoice, but the Leased Company and my Employer see it as a "Fine". How I can put the thinks right?

Thanks again.

The oxford english dictionary gives this definition:

fine
• noun a sum of money exacted as a penalty by a court of law or other authority.
• verb punish by a fine.

A private company does not have any more authority to impose a fine than you or I. That is for a court or a regulatory body authorised by statute law to do.

Explain to your employer/lease firm that this is not a "fine" as no court or authorised body has set it. Tell them it is a civil invoice for an alleged breach of contract that you dispute and that if they take the money from your wages you will bring a civil action to recover any money taken by them.

BTW you might want to point out that a Parking Charge Notice is different from a Penalty Charge Notice. The difference being that a Penalty Charge Notice is issued with statute law backing i.e. The Road Transport Act 1991 (as amended). A Parking Charge Notice is merely an invoice purporting to be an official document.

Good luck

[Sidewinder]

I would seek a meeting with the Company Secretary with a view to raising a formal grievance. Explain that whilst you fully appreciate that the Company should have such a clause in order to recover fines imposed by legal statute, this ticket has been issued under no such authority, cannot lawfully be classed as a 'fine' or 'penalty' and has been issued as part of a money making scheme rather than to enforce traffic regulations. You made no agreement to pay this invoice and were not made aware of any specific terms for use of the car park. Having researched the subject and taken advice, you are certain that this charge should not have been paid, nor could it be enforced, particularly as by the parking company's own hand they have not explained exactly why the invoice was issued. The actions of the leasing company have denied you the opportunity to challenge the ticket. Private tickets can rarely be challenged after payment as the company has no legal obligation to have a proper appeals process - they basically have to decide whether they are willing to give up some of their ill-gotten gains and guess what - 99% of the time they aren't! Would the lease company also have just paid a ticket issued under the RTA where you have a legal right to challenge? How does that work in terms of an admission of guilt by somebody not connected with the alleged 'offence'?

The terms of your contract are very specific with regard to what can and cannot lawfully be deducted, and invoices such as this one is not specified within those terms so any deduction could be formally challenged. Print some information such as this to illustrate your case, and advise them that you feel so strongly about this that you are considering civil action initially against the lease company to recover the money should it be deducted from your salary but also that there may be an issue of breach of contract on the part of your employer for deductions outside the scope of the T&Cs. Who knows, your actions may educate people in the company and save them money.

[rila75]

Many thanks to all here for the invaluable advices. I will speak with my company and keep post the results here.
Thanks

[rila75]

If in doubt just check this:This Is Local London

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by pin1onu

The Road Transport Act 1991 (as amended).

Road Traffic Act 1991

[Sidewinder]

Print the page off and use this to support your case. In those circumstances I think a Letter Before Action might be called for. Follow it through with a Money Claim - I can't see that you would lose as Lidl have acknowledged that their (CPE's) devices may be faulty. The anecdotal evidence of others leaving messages is equally important.