Hello

[Fabracaz1]

and I hope this is the first step in getting something done about stopping the cash cow for local councils that is the issuing of pcn,s and the complete and utter contempt they show to anybody that challenges them.

To cut a long story short between mid may and mid june of last year my car was captured on CCTV SEVENTEEN TIMES!! presumably parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours. After checking the rules on Westminster Councils website I am sure that all of these where incorrectly issued!

Despite writing to the council ( by special delivery ) on 3 occasions surprise surprise I have received no reply.

In some instances I have received no paperwork from the council or the traffic enforcement centre. The first point of contact being a threatening letter from a bailiff! On calling them they are as about as helpful as a ashtray on a motorbike!

I have even sent all the information to PATAS and a month later I still I have heard nothing from them.

How are they allowed to get away with this bullying and complete contempt to motorists!!

Ideally I would like to know if there is a central source or individual that can freeze all these pcn,s and make the council accountable for there shoddy administration rather than continue with the exasperating process of continually writing letters and making phonecalls to all of sundry with absoloutley no evidence in return thatsomebody is looking into the bloody mess!!

I look forward to any advice anybody has.

[ukaviator]

Hello and welcome to CAG. I will move your post to the right place, for more assistance.

Uk

[Fabracaz1]

Thank you.

[green_and_mean]

There is not going to be a 'magic' cure for your problem you need to sort out your priorities.
Firstly stop getting PCNs, then you need to deal with each PCN individually, write to the Council with a freedom of information request and ask for a list of all the PCNs issued to you and at what stage each one is at.
Then you need to either pay or appeal against the ones still at the stage that still makes it possible. Appeal to the Council appeals centre don't bother writing to the Council parking dept complaining it may just get lost and does not form part of the appeals process.
The ones you did not receive ask for a copy.
The ones at the baliffs will have to be dealt with depending on why it got to that stage, did you ignore the PCNs, not get them, lose appeal etc etc.

[Fabracaz1]

Thank you for your reply.

Perhaps my inital posting wasnt quiet clear so I will try to through more light on the problem.

I drive an unmarked company car. My business in the street concerned involves stopping for no more than five minutes to collect/pick up internal mail.
Westminster councils website clearly states that loading/unloading is allowed for upto 20 minutes if observed. I clearly state through a sign on my dashboard the nature of my business and 98 times out of a hundred the wardens will leave me be. These alleged offences where captured on cctv & therefore do not observe how long a vehicle is parked. Westminster council state that "Real people" who operate the cameras do. I therefore challenged them to prove that I was parked longer. THEY DONT REPLY!

You advise to contact the council under the freedom of information act. Thank you for that I wasnt aware of such a department. However surely there is something seriously wrong and amiss if the address the council advise to contact for appealing can not answer/lose correspondence and just get away with it!

In some instances the 1st time I was made aware of a contravention was a letter from a bailiff. Where has the notice to owner, charge certificate gone etc. If the council cannot get there administration right why should the motorist suffer!

This isnt about evading fines etc. I drive in London everyday and like the congestion charge its part of the beast of the job.

What my main gripe is that councils as a whole are using the issuing of pcns as a means to generate cash. Different wardens are acting under different sets of rules and discretions to others. Signs are not clear or do not exist at all and they are basically being allowed to get away with murder. As I stated earlier 3 times I have written and appealed on each occasion no reply has been received. Its not about not wanting to pay. if each pcn had been initially received showing a picture etc I would have appealed.

Not everybody has access to these forums or the internet in generall and therefore can not gain the advice etc given on them. And for the elderly or those not so well off an initial letter from a bailiff asking for a fee three times the rate of the initial one must be deeply distressing.

If you park illegally or dont pay for a meter or car park space then you get what you deserve but this is wrong and its about time this was taken to a much higher level and looked into.

I will be making this quiet clear to the current Mayor Of London and all the candidates for this may,s elections.

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by Fabracaz1

Westminster council state that "Real people" who operate the cameras do. I therefore challenged them to prove that I was parked longer. THEY DONT REPLY!

Cameras are operated by people they do not just randomly take photos they are similar to on street PAs just less visible.
There is no need to get into an argument over the rights and wrongs of enforcement with Council you will never win, just appeal through the normal channels shown on the PCN. If they fail to reply to your appeal within the correct timeframe you can get the PCN cancelled. If you think they are lying the video can be viewed if requested so you can see how long they viewed you, what you get is stills taken from a video feed, they do not take photos.
If loading is permitted you need to appeal on the grounds the contravention did not take place and include a copy of your work sheet or some other documentation to back this up.

[seanamarts]

G&M he didnt get the PCN's how can he appeal if he didnt get any paperwork

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by seanamarts

G&M he didnt get the PCN's how can he appeal if he didnt get any paperwork

What he needs to do is find out from the bailiffs the relevant case numbers/references/ judgements etc so he can then go to the court and make statutory declarations about not receiving the paperwork. That will stop the bailiffs actions and put the process back a bit - from memory at least to the NTO stage as he hasn't had a chance to enter a defense. There are some other threads that I've seen on this forum that give the correct procedure. It will cost him some dosh but better that than paying the bailiffs.

Once he has the relevant references he can then go about the process of appealing/defending himself against these charges.

The councils should also be able to provide him with a history of all PCNs issued to him via a Subject Access Request under the Data Protection act if required. You would need to write to each council in turn and pay a fee for this information. Most councils have a section about this on their website. You need to be specific about the information you require. They have 40 days to reply.

If any or all of these PCN's turn out to be invalid I believe you could make a valid case for claiming restitution for any expense incurred in fighting these charges via the small claims court.

Fab: Have a look at this thread. It has some relevance to your situation. Has Anyone Reclaimed Paid PCN

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by seanamarts

G&M he didnt get the PCN's how can he appeal if he didnt get any paperwork

He said in SOME cases did not get paperwork, if he had NO paperwork at all why would he even be posting on here?
Did you actually even read my post I in fact intructed him to get copies of the PCNs amongst other advice but I cannot seem to find the advice you gave??

[seanamarts]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

He said in SOME cases did not get paperwork, if he had NO paperwork at all why would he even be posting on here?
Did you actually even read my post I in fact intructed him to get copies of the PCNs amongst other advice but I cannot seem to find the advice you gave??

go suck an egg You tire me sometimes reading your pathetic posts.. maybe you should go get a life instead of making others miserable with your ramblings of high and mighty statements .. just because you dont drive a car dosnt mean we dont have to.. you seem to spend your life on here slating others for small misdemeanors .. go join greenpeace they need people like you

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by seanamarts

go suck an egg You tire me sometimes reading your pathetic posts.. maybe you should go get a life instead of making others miserable with your ramblings of high and mighty statements .. just because you dont drive a car dosnt mean we dont have to.. you seem to spend your life on here slating others for small misdemeanors .. go join greenpeace they need people like you

I'm pathetic, lol?? You should try reading back what you have just posted and then considering applying that statement to yourself.

[seanamarts]

oh really and pray tell me how it apples to me I dont judge every one guilty as you do just because they get some sort of parking fine etc

[seanamarts]

and i didnt call you pathetic I called your posts pathetic .. get it right

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by seanamarts

and i didnt call you pathetic I called your posts pathetic .. get it right

Grow up!!

[seanamarts]

ha is that how you answer when you have no answers .. Ive done my growing up thank you .. green and mean certainly suits you

[patdavies]

Seanamarts,

The way that I read the OP is that he had been caught 17 times

viz.

my car was captured on CCTV SEVENTEEN TIMES!!

and CCTV based PCNs issued.

viz.

After checking the rules on Westminster Councils website I am sure that all of these where incorrectly issued!

G&M's initial advice was correct and apposite. It is you that has been childish in your posts to G&M. You are out of order (although perhaps he should not have joined in).

And before you accuse me of being the same, let me tell you that I have had several arguments with him and rarely do we agree. I do, however, respect his point of view (even if it is occasionally misguided)

[seanamarts]

Originally Posted by patdavies

Seanamarts,

The way that I read the OP is that he had been caught 17 times

viz.
and CCTV based PCNs issued.

viz.

G&M's initial advice was correct and apposite. It is you that has been childish in your posts to G&M. You are out of order (although perhaps he should not have joined in).

And before you accuse me of being the same, let me tell you that I have had several arguments with him and rarely do we agree. I do, however, respect his point of view (even if it is occasionally misguided)

[BADGER 69]

This childish behaviour benifits no one.