Council Issue PCN is it invalid?

myster · 7th December 2007, 17:12

Hi all people of the forum. Any help/advice on this one will be appreciated.

I recieved a PCN for parking in a loading bay on sunday just gone (02/12/2007). I parked their whilst experiencing pains in my abdomen and had the need to visit the loo. There was a massive que for the town centre car park and all pay & display slots were full. If i drove any longer, i felt that there would have been an accidnet as I couldnt drive with the pains. The nearest place, safest and without causing anyone problems/blocking anyone(considering the stores by the loading bays were closed and it was a sunday) I parked in the loading bay.

Cut the story short after i returned feeling a stone lighter (he he), i had a ticket on my screen. The loading bay has no times/days stated, only has the loading sign with a lorry picture, and double yellow lines.

My PCN reg for vehicle is rite, the colour is meant to be yellow but says orange & the vehcile make only says make (renault) and does not say model. However the chimps normally photograph the car.

Is it worth me appealing on the grounds that I was not in a fit state to drive and thats why I parked up and after feeling better returned to vehicle?

Or is it worth mentioning the PCN vehcile colour error and the model not being recorded - not sure if these are valid points as they photograph the car?

Please let me know, cheers.

patdavies · 7th December 2007, 18:01

You can try an informal appeal, but I don't think that you can take it any further without some medical evidence (doctor's letter, hospital admission, etc.)

I assume that this is a Council-issued PCN and not a private one?

green_and_mean · 7th December 2007, 19:23

The yellow lines remove the need for times as it is loading only 24 hrs 7 days a week. The colour of the car is not needed and unless completely different will not get you off.

myster · 7th December 2007, 20:22

Hi, thanks for the replies.

The colour they have of my car is orange instead of yellow,

It is a council issue ticket (red jacket wardens)

What do you guys reckon?

Also, if my appeal is unsuccessful, do I have to pay the full amount or can i still get a reduction within 14 days? Im not sure if appealing over-rides the chance of me paying half the cost with 14 days of notice.

Cheers guys

robin9342 · 7th December 2007, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

The yellow lines remove the need for times as it is loading only 24 hrs 7 days a week. The colour of the car is not needed and unless completely different will not get you off.

Actually, the colour of the car IS required to be stated on the PCN or it is not valid, but yellow-orange is probably too close to appeal. The model of the car is not required, just the make.

Check the PCN and also make sure the time, date, registration number, location, attendant number and signature are all recorded correctly. If any are missing or incorrect, the PCN is not valid.

You should always appeal a PCN at the first stage (within 14 days) as there is a chance, no matter how small, that the council may cancel it. All charges are put on hold while you wait for the council's reply and if/when they reject your appeal, you have a further 14 days to either pay at the reduced rate or appeal to the traffic adjudicator once a notice to owner is sent. Also, if the council do not answer your appeal within 56 days the PCN is void.

myster · 7th December 2007, 20:53

Is there any letter template available for me to follow, maybe a link?

The time is correct, date is correct, location is correct, it gives me the attendant number and a contravention code of 25.

Also grean and mean mentioned:

"The yellow lines remove the need for times as it is loading only 24 hrs 7 days a week"

On the ticket it says:

....parking attendant wv107 who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contravention had occured:
parked in a loading place during restricted hours without loading.

Is the offence right? or should there be another ofence as there are no times and the loading bay restriction is 24/7?

Bernie_the_Bolt · 8th December 2007, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by robin9342

Actually, the colour of the car IS required to be stated on the PCN or it is not valid, but yellow-orange is probably too close to appeal. The model of the car is not required, just the make.

Check the PCN and also make sure the time, date, registration number, location, attendant number and signature are all recorded correctly. If any are missing or incorrect, the PCN is not valid.

You should always appeal a PCN at the first stage (within 14 days) as there is a chance, no matter how small, that the council may cancel it. All charges are put on hold while you wait for the council's reply and if/when they reject your appeal, you have a further 14 days to either pay at the reduced rate or appeal to the traffic adjudicator once a notice to owner is sent. Also, if the council do not answer your appeal within 56 days the PCN is void.

Be careful, this is not law. It may be "best practice" but you should not rely on this.

A council that does not follow this may get criticised by a sympathetic adjudicator for failing to treat the motorist fairly but it is not a statutory defence.

JOSH_IOU · 8th December 2007, 06:09

Just as a thought.

Since you are lucky enough to live in decriminlised parking fine council, you could challange the ticket's issue.

Decriminilised parking is against the Bill of Rights Act 1689.

Because you may not have the right to challenge this ticket in court. or before a jury.

How do you know the adjudicator will act in your best interest and not the council's?

In my Council the ticket is issued by a police officer and police traffic officer. This is a legal practice as it gives the individual the right to challaenge the ticket in a court of LAW.

green_and_mean · 8th December 2007, 10:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by robin9342

Actually, the colour of the car IS required to be stated on the PCN or it is not valid, but yellow-orange is probably too close to appeal. The model of the car is not required, just the make.

Check the PCN and also make sure the time, date, registration number, location, attendant number and signature are all recorded correctly. If any are missing or incorrect, the PCN is not valid.

You should always appeal a PCN at the first stage (within 14 days) as there is a chance, no matter how small, that the council may cancel it. All charges are put on hold while you wait for the council's reply and if/when they reject your appeal, you have a further 14 days to either pay at the reduced rate or appeal to the traffic adjudicator once a notice to owner is sent. Also, if the council do not answer your appeal within 56 days the PCN is void.

Please can you back this up with legislation or case law? There is no requirement under the RTA 1991 for the colour of the car to be on the pcn.
There is no requirement to freeze the discount period and making frivolous appeals when you are clearly in contravention is a waste of money. Always check before making an appeal that the discount will be held pending first reps.

green_and_mean · 8th December 2007, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesrap

Just as a thought.

Since you are lucky enough to live in decriminlised parking fine council, you could challange the ticket's issue.

Decriminilised parking is against the Bill of Rights Act 1689.

Because you may not have the right to challenge this ticket in court. or before a jury.

How do you know the adjudicator will act in your best interest and not the council's?

In my Council the ticket is issued by a police officer and police traffic officer. This is a legal practice as it gives the individual the right to challaenge the ticket in a court of LAW.

Several people have tried this approach and failed the NPAS case is here..
http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/ab...Act%201689.pdf

myster · 8th December 2007, 14:17

Any letter templates here on this forum in relation to my situation to help me? or doesn anyone have any that they could mail me?

Cheers people, really appreciate all the feedback

Bernie_the_Bolt · 8th December 2007, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by myster

Any letter templates here on this forum in relation to my situation to help me? or doesn anyone have any that they could mail me?

Cheers people, really appreciate all the feedback

Templates don't really work for this type of ticket.
Scan and post both sides of the ticket (pemove stuff that could identify you).
In most cases, for a PCN to be valid and enforceable there must have been three things:
a) Lawful parking restrictions
b) Stopping in contravention of those restrictions
c) Lawful enforcement processes.

In your case, unless you can show that you have a challenge to either a) or b), you need to focus on c) and that is why the first thing to do is to share the PCN.

robin9342 · 9th December 2007, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

Please can you back this up with legislation or case law? There is no requirement under the RTA 1991 for the colour of the car to be on the pcn.
There is no requirement to freeze the discount period and making frivolous appeals when you are clearly in contravention is a waste of money. Always check before making an appeal that the discount will be held pending first reps.

I obtained my information from this site: Appeal and Win your Parking Tickets and Parking fines

I am unable to quote the legislation and it may well be that it is only "code of practice". However, it would appear that appeals can (though not always) be won this way.

green_and_mean · 9th December 2007, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by robin9342

I obtained my information from this site: Appeal and Win your Parking Tickets and Parking fines

I am unable to quote the legislation and it may well be that it is only "code of practice". However, it would appear that appeals can (though not always) be won this way.

There is no legal requirement for the colour to be on the PCN at all and its exclusion is unlikely to get you off a PCN for that reason. A code of practice from the London Councils also states model, make and colour are NOT required but will add further weight to a Councils case if included.

patdavies · 10th December 2007, 01:34

G&M is, of course. absolutely right. Anybody who actually bothers to reads the Act can see that.

There is no requirement for the colour for the vehicle to be on the ticket.

However, if it is and it is dramatically wrong, it could be used to point to a lack of ability on the part of the PA to enter anything else on the PCN correctly.

Lack of or wrong colour, on its own, is not something that I would gamble on.

myster · 11th December 2007, 13:35

the ticket has apcoa written on the top, this must be some company on behalf of council. do they have the power to get registered keepers details from dvla?

the car was bought a month ago and i havent got round to registering it on my name yet.

I can scan the ticket, scanner not working. I dont know what to do, times running out now. How shall i appeal on what grounds? the stomach problem or the colour of the vehicle not being right? or both?

Got until tomorrow to submit letter, going to hand it in at council and get a stamped date reciept!

robin9342 · 11th December 2007, 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by myster

the ticket has apcoa written on the top, this must be some company on behalf of council. do they have the power to get registered keepers details from dvla?

the car was bought a month ago and i havent got round to registering it on my name yet.

I can scan the ticket, scanner not working. I dont know what to do, times running out now. How shall i appeal on what grounds? the stomach problem or the colour of the vehicle not being right? or both?

Got until tomorrow to submit letter, going to hand it in at council and get a stamped date reciept!

Ah, was the loading bay on a public road or on private land?

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