UKPC Parking Fine Grimsby

[emopaz]

I have spent most of the morning reading the many threads with regards UKPC and have just torn up the cheque I was about to send them. I hope I have done the right thing as although some of the things I have read are similiar to my situation, none of them are exactly the same. I am going to write to them using one of the templates on here but any advice is greatly appreciated. I don't want to end up ruining my families credit reputation because I chose not to pay a £45 parking fine out of principal.

On Saturday 01 December I parked my car in a free B&Q/Halfords car park which until a couple of weeks ago was totally free of UKPC. I dropped my husband at the door of B&Q and proceeded to find a space. My daughter and I then walked to the bank leaving my husband to do his boring DIY browsing and then over to Halfords to price up some parts for our car. On returning I saw the attendant stood against a wall and worried that we may have got a fine because we had been over the 2 hours by about 20 minutes. There was no ticket on the car and so I thought we were OK. I picked my husband up from the entrance and away we went. On Wednesday 05 December the 'Civil Traffic Enforcement Notice' for unauthorised parking arrived demanding £45 in 7 days which would then rise to £90 and then proceed to debt collectors and court if not paid. There was a picture of the rear of my car parked in the space. I know I parked there. I don't dispute the fact. I was also the driver and I am the registered keeper of the car - I do not dispute this either. How do they get my full name and address?

Part of me knows I have done wrong as we overstayed the 2 hour limit by 20 minutes but the car park was not full. So aren't they really correct saying that I was 'unauthorised parking'? Any help or similiar cases???

[Sidewinder]

Unauthorised by whom?

You have committed no offence whatsoever - what you have received is not a fine, but an invoice from UKPC inviting you to part with money - the landowner allows UKPC to stop people parking for free all day and to make a lot of money on the side in the process. They will claim that where you parked you would have read a sign which stated that in the event that you breach certain conditions you agreed to pay them a certain sum and that this forms a contractual obligation. In most cases this would be sufficient for people to just curse their ignorance/stupidity/bad luck and to pay the money, so congratulations on putting up a fight and refusing to pay what is a modern day Dick Turpin scam.

The only way that UKPC would be able to force you to pay the money would be to take you to civil court (note, not criminal) and to prove to a judge that you made a contractual agreement to pay. How are they going to do that when you were unaware of any such condition (although you mention that you were worried about a 'fine' did you actually accept that a breach might cost you that much money?) For any contract to exist it must be proven that it was adequately explained and that you fully understood its terms.

UKPC will have obtained the RK details from DVLA - outrageous that it is, any BPA member with reasonable cause to establish a keeper of a particular vehicle may do so on payment of a fee (around £2.50 IIRC). Any effect on credit rating though would be a long long process as you will receive countless letters, firstly rejecting your appeal (they may skip that step) then passing your details to a debt collection agency who will write to you and add some more costs, then back to UKPC for them to threaten a little more. At each stage you will (hopefully) either ignore them or tell them to go away (and plenty here will tell you what to say or do) and in the very unlikely event that they actually issued a County Court claim, you would have the opportunity to make a defence. Very very few cases have ever got to Court and even then it is far from easy for the company to prove the case. Their best hope would be for you to not turn up in which case they could get a judgement by default. Then and only then would anything go on your credit file if you failed to pay within 28 days, so there is a long way to go before there is even the remotest chance of that! The vast majority of cases do not progress beyond letters, the case being dropped when it is clear that it is costing them money to send them and there is no hope of bullying you with threats into paying up.

The normal 'defences' in these cases are that they have written to the RK but that the RK was not the driver at the time, or that the driver was unaware of any such agreement to pay the amount being claimed, in that he or she saw no sign or was not aware of any condition relating to a charge being payable.

[pin1onu]

Hi emopaz,

Welcome to the forums. Don't worry you're not alone.

First up have a read of the stickies at the top of the forums. There are loads of good advice contained therein and some templates for you to write a letter which should put an end to this matter.

UKPC are a private firm and have no legal basis for trying to get money out of you. Like most of these firms they try to scare the money out of you with talk of bailiffs and court action and so on. If they insist on taking you to court, and most of them don't, then you will have a chance to have enter a defense against them. Your credit record can only by blackened if they win a case against you and you then fail to pay the amount the court sets in judgement.

If they do refer the case to a debt collection agency, which is another intimidation tactic you merely need to write to the debt collection agency saying the debt is in dispute and agency must, by law, refer back to the client.

These firms can get hold of your details as the registered keeper of the vehicle from the DVLA. They have to pay for this service (going rate is about 30 peices of silver (£2.50) per transaction).

They will have contacted you as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

Bear in mind that this is is a civil matter as the so called infringement happened in a private car park and is therefore not subject to the road traffic act. If it was subject to the Road Traffic Act you would see the words Penalty Charge Notice across the top. As it was you have words 'Civil Traffic Enforcement Notice' on your notice which makes it another name for an invoice.

What I would do is write back asking them to contact the driver regarding the matter. Use the first letter in the stickies template letters which you can find here.

Remember the onus is on them to prove the case against you.

There are plenty of people prepared to offer you help and support so stand firm.

Pin1onU

[emopaz]

Thank you both for your support and advice and to everyone else on the forum that inspired me to fight this company.

On recieving this 'fine' I felt like a criminal - now I just feel ANGRY!

To think I actually had the cheque all written out to send. It was only by chance I did a Google search for UKPC and this site came up. Good things do happen!

Well, the cheque went in the bin and the 'I don't think so!' letter went in the post along with one to B&Q asking them for their opinion before I write to my local paper to let all the unsuspecting shoppers know that 'robbers' are now operating in this car park.

I have come to work today to find out about another car park in Grimsby that is catching a lot of shoppers out. Staples/Next/JJB etc has cameras on the entrance which logs you coming into the car park and again when you leave. I have been told that if you return to the car park the same day you are being sent a fine for having parked there all day regardless of whether you left and returned! Do these shops really want our business?????

[digger42]

Hi emopaz,

I am also from grimsby and in dispute with UKPC, dont worry, there are plenty of threads on this site, and templet letters that you can use in your fight against them

[emopaz]

Hi Digger42

In a way it's nice to know I'm not the only one in Grimsby, but then again Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrrr.

In the words of the malted milk drink advert.... "How do they sleep at night?????????"

[Barnsley Boy]

Emopaz,

Welcome - you've done the right thing. No one should pay these scammers - it only encourages them.

You will continue to get drivel sent to you by 2nd class post. It is just the way these cowboys operate.

Stand firm, you will get plenty of support here.

[Nikkip]

Hi,

My mum borrowed my car and parked it in the b and q / halfords car park in grimsby, she walked into town. When she returned she had a ticket from UKPC on the car saying she was seen walking into town!

I searched for the company on google and found no web site and came across this site. After reading all the posts i am thinking that i shouldnt pay the fine as it seems like a bit of a scam!!

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle (my mum just has general insurance to drive any car) As the ticket will arrive in my name, not sure what to do?
Where are the letter templates on this site, can anyone advise?

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by Nikkip

Hi,

My mum borrowed my car and parked it in the b and q / halfords car park in grimsby, she walked into town. When she returned she had a ticket from UKPC on the car saying she was seen walking into town!

I searched for the company on google and found no web site and came across this site. After reading all the posts i am thinking that i shouldnt pay the fine as it seems like a bit of a scam!!

I am the registered keeper of the vehicle (my mum just has general insurance to drive any car) As the ticket will arrive in my name, not sure what to do?
Where are the letter templates on this site, can anyone advise?

Hi welcome to the forums,

The stickies are located at the top of this forum. If you click on the parking/traffic offenses link at the top of the page you will find the stickies under the announcements. (Click here if you still can't find them.)

Basically they'll write to you as the RK. You'll say thank you for your letter. Please take it up with the driver. It's a civil case and you're under no legal obligation to provide any information about who was driving.

BTW for future reference it's better to start your own thread when asking for advice. Some people get upset if you hijack their threads.

[Nikkip]

Ok thanks, I wasnt sure how to start my own!

So hopefully i have a good case as i wasnt even driving the car anyway so they cant send me a fine!

[help needed]

hi, what a small world this is...............i am currently awaiting my first letter from ukpao (is this a different company) and i too got my parking charge in grimsby, the carpark in question was the matalan/argos one, was worried because it was a genuine mistake on my part, and my hubby found this site and it sooooooooo made me fell better, so bring on the letters scumbags..........the only people ill be paying out to in the end is a donation to this site

[Sidewinder]

They will almost certainly send you a parking charge, but as stated above, you need simply to tell them that they have charged the wrong person as you were categorically not in the car park on that day. Note though that UKPC will almost certainly ignore everything that you say and insist that you owe them money. You will need a strong resolve and thick skin, but you cannot be held liable for the driver's actions.

[emopaz]

Just thought I would let you know that after using the letter templates on this site to wirte to UKPC with my version of events, and stating that I would not be paying the fine, 'as a gesture of goodwill' the fine has been cancelled.

Thank you for all your advice.

[pin1onu]

Originally Posted by emopaz

Just thought I would let you know that after using the letter templates on this site to wirte to UKPC with my version of events, and stating that I would not be paying the fine, 'as a gesture of goodwill' the fine has been cancelled.

Thank you for all your advice.

Fantastic. A good result.

Nice of them to "cancel your fine" as if they had any legal right to impose one in the first place. The shysters. (lol)