Getting absolutely nowhere

[the yattering]

Hi,

In April 2007 I received a PCN for no displayed ticket in a car park dated November 2006. The PCN was for £90 as, as it stated we had failed to reply to the initial one. We never received an initial PCN in the post and my wife (who drives the car) assured me that no notice was attached to the windscreen. She contacted the relevant authority and requested evidence of the ticket, and the location of the Car Park in question (We had never heared of it). We were told that they would look into it and we would hear in due course, but we were to send a letter to them with the information we had told them on the phone, which we did. After contacting them numerous times to request information which was never forthcoming we eventually received a letter from a firm of bailiffs for the outstanding charge plus costs. (£145)

My wife went to the councils offices to speak to someone who gave her the following advice:

1) they had no record of us ever contacting them!

2) Because it had been such a long time, myself (as the registered owner) would have to attend court and have a Statutory Decleration signed to say why we hadn't paid the fine.

3) once we had done that the fine would be reduced and we would have the right to appeal.

I did all this but one week later we again got a letter from the bailiffs relating to this fine. I rang the council who said that the decleration had not come through yet? so they put the bailiffs on hold for 28 days while they waited for it.

Today I received another bailiffs letter demanding over £350, again relating to the PCN

I contacted the local Authority who told me that they still had not had the Stat dec and told me to contact Traffic Enforcement in Northampton to see what was happening.

I contacted them only to be told that everything the council had told me to do was false information and there where actually 2 forms that I should have had signed as it was so long after the event. So they are now telling me that the stat dec I had paid for to be signed is invalid and I will have to take further time off work to get these two forms signed at a county court.


IS there anything I can do about this? it has been dragging on for months and months and I have done everything that was asked of me by the issuing authority, only to be told by someone else that the information I was provided was wrong and I will have to start the whole process again.

We never received the evidence we requested either.

[VictorMeldrewToo]

Look at pepipoo.com for advice. There are lots of requirements on wording of the signs, paperwork and the geometry of the lines that most councils get completely wrong. I got a ticket in Slough, fought it on the basis of wording and wrong road markings and magically they decided "the meter guy got it wrong" . I sent them 2 standard letters from Pepipoo.

Here's the psychology bit: if you are "nice" it seems they will walk all over you; if you resist and put up a fight they try it on and then realise you're
not going take it lying down they give in because they know they are likely wrong somewhere, somehow. They will also lie about the mistakes you find, even if you win and they cancel.

[the yattering]

Update: My wife has been in hospital over the past few weeks, she went in for a routine operation and ended up having major surgery as she had complications which very nearly took her from us. Due to the stress I have not had a chance to follow this up, but this morning I received yet another Bailiffs 'Final Demand'. The letter has no date (apart from a postal date) and no amount, it just tells us to leave our car keys and log book with someone over 18 years old so they can cover the debt. What the hell should I do, surely the council is at fault here as I did all that they asked.

*edit*

this is what the final demand says:

Dear Mr xxxxxxxx

Warrant of execution dated for outstanding penalty charge notice due to xxxxxxxxx - does this make sense?

Our removal team recently called in your area to remove goods to clear the above debt but was unable to meet with you. I have rescheduled them to call at your premises within the next 7 days. On this occasion if they are unable to meet with you to collect payment, they will seek to remove your vehicle or other goods in your absence.

Further costs will be added to the debt which will be deducted from the sale proceeds once your vehicle/goods have been sold at auction. It would be helpful if you could leave your keys and log book with a responsible adult over the age of 18 at your adress.

I never received a letter saying that this had been referred back to the bailiffs and this is the first I have heared from them regarding it going back to them.
Anyone?
please?

[VictorMeldrewToo]

Hi,

Sorry to hear of your wife's problems and stress. My circumstances were kind of similar at the time Slough's finest chose to pick an easy target. Ironically I was parked in a parking bay to attend a physio for stress related neck pain followed work + my mother's passing.

Anyway, I am not qualified to give legal advice but everything you have said here sounds wrong. The council parking attendant has to physically put the yellow notice ON your car for it to be "served" and thus legal.
If they have no proof then they don't have a leg to stand on. Yes, the ticket could have blown off in the wind but that's their fault. They have a receipt system to avoid arguments but it seems they are can't provide proof so can't argue.

Definitely do NOT give the car keys to anyone or even any money. That's absurd. I would seek professional advice ASAP. Try *all* or as many as the following:

(a) citizens advice bureau
(b) a soliticitor (15-mins free basis)
(c) online legal help, such as
Legalservices Shop

(d) the Samaritans
(e) the council (again) explaining you feel threatened
(f) your local MP
(g) the police about the ticket that doesn't exist AND the abusive bailiffs

I know the last one sounds a bit daft but I had a friend in desparate trouble recently and they were excellent and gave us several very useful phone numbers. They even ring you back if they don't know immediately.

The debt collectors sound very aggressive and sound like they are intimidating you. They are only allowed to recover money where owed. Your circumstances are debatable so it is for a court to decide IF you owe anything not some bully.
I know you will be feeling angry/upset/anxious and many more. Take a DEEP breath. Dig deep and get on the phone and keep talking until someone listens.

I hope that is of some use. You don't deserve this, even if your wife DID over-stay. Somehow I doubt she did.

Good luck.

"Victor"

[VictorMeldrewToo]

Some quick anti-bailiff help
AdviceKit Manchester - About bailiffs

Summary:
"Fill in form N245: Application for suspension of a warrant and / or variation of an instalment order"

and in short DON'T let them in if the turn up.
DON'T sign anything
and from another site - DON'T park your car in your own drive or outside

[seanamarts]

Im sorry to hear your wife has been ill I wish her a full recovery,
My advice is to go back to the council and demand copies of the first NTO and all photographic evidence of the PCN, they have to provide you with these. Either hand deliver the letter and get a receipt or post recorded delivery. Send them an email as well. In the mean time fill in the form N245
In form the bailiff company what you are doing in writing, if they come dont let them in hide your car and wait for replies etc ..

[bmwman]

Hello the yattering

Sorry to her your wife is ill I wish her well soon.

Write to the council under freedom of information Act asking for original copies of the following:-
PCN
Notice to Owner
Charge Certificate
Enforcement Order

Baliff action cannot legally take place until you have received the enforcement order also contact TEC and ask them when the PCN was registered as a debt. Agian i it has not been registered baliff action can not take place as is illegal.

[esporta-victim]

I've saved this page as it has some good information.

I fought a PCN and won, but it was an easy case really. I came back to see a parking penalty notice stuck on my car with my ticket displayed near it. I don't see why I should stick it to my windscreen so I leave it on the dashboard. Sent the council a scan of the ticket and a strong letter asking when the warden last had his eyes checked. No apology but they didn't chase it any further.

I do wonder about what the 'public good/benefit' is of the whole traffic enforcement system; keep the roads safe and clear yes, but what does it matter if a car is parked in a bay (other than a money making exercise).

[Al27]

In the meantime, I would consider keeping your car a distance away from your house until this is sorted.

Anyway, I am not qualified to give legal advice but everything you have said here sounds wrong. The council parking attendant has to physically put the yellow notice ON your car for it to be "served" and thus legal.
If they have no proof then they don't have a leg to stand on. Yes, the ticket could have blown off in the wind but that's their fault. They have a receipt system to avoid arguments but it seems they are can't provide proof so can't argue.

It's got way past that stage now. We're trying to get the stat declaration sorted, which will then turn the clock back, which would then mean we can then appeal about whether the PCN was properly served.

[Ting]

There is some very strange and uninformed advice given on this forum !

'yattering'. Do exactly as TEC at Northampton have said and get the forms completed. Do not sign them until in the presence of an Officer at your local County Court. He will do this for free.
Then ask your local CC to fax these immediately to TEC and explain the very tight time issue.
Then phone TEC to confirm they understand and ask what the effect will be. They can be quite helpful. Ask nif they can do anything immediately to hold off the Council.

----and rest.

You don't have time to phaff around as suggested with the police (ridiculous), cab (when they're ready), your local MP (when? at the next quarterly surgery?), the samaritans (eh, words fail me) - or to break with procedure and start pestering the Council at this stage for original documents as someone suggested.

Wish you the best.