Speeding in a Van over 2 Tonnes

[dowbulldog]

Hi All

Im after a little advice, I got caught out by speeding in a van over 2 tonnes, its a company vehicle, I was doing 58 in a 60mph zone, when my transports manager phoned me to tell me I was told everyone knew, he later phoned me back and retracted that statement after speaking to several other employees who also didnt know that the Ford connect was classed as a light goods vehicle and subject to 50mph on A roads.

I would like to know if they (my company) have a duty to incorporate into company handbook, memo or any other form of communication to there employees that such restrictions apply.

Thanks

A very disgruntled I.T Engineer now with 3 points !!!

[millsee]

Originally Posted by dowbulldog

I would like to know if they (my company) have a duty to incorporate into company handbook, memo or any other form of communication to there employees that such restrictions apply.

Ummm, well. Quite frankly. No.

Your employer is not duty bound to inform you of every law applicable to your working day. I doubt "You shall not stab a fellow employee to death" forms part of section 6 of your contract, for example.

That said, are you sure the NIP has been served appropriately?

[dowbulldog]

That said, are you sure the NIP has been served appropriately?

Hi Thanks for your feedback, not sure what you mean by above,

I am an I.T engineer our company leases vehicles through autolease, my transport manager phoned me to tell me about this ticket, when he said doing 58 in a 60mph i asked him what the hell he meant, it was then he told me about this law, a few days later i recieved my NIP in the post

My point is he assumed everyone new about this regulation, by asking other people he quickly realised how wrong he was, very few people knew

[borisbeaver]

Unfortunately a lot of people get caught out by this when they rent a transit van. On a dual carriageway, it is restricted to 60mph.

I was stopped doing 82 in a 60 zone. Whilst the traffic officer was showing me the video in his car, someone blatted past him and his speed kit recorded a speed over 100mph. He let me off with a warning.

Check out the speed limit for vehicles other than cars. It makes interesting reading.

[advisee]

Your employee have a duty to carry out training before you use any equipment -this would include a car or a van.

That said, you have told them that you have a licence to drive specific types of vehicles, do you not have a copy of the highway code?

[cal37]

Having a licence to drive a particular class of vehicle deems you competent and duly trained to drive the said class.

An Employer does not have to give you training to drive a vehicle you already hold a full licence for. It is your sole duty to know the relevant laws concerning the vehicles you drive.

If it was an HGV then there are different rules as an operator, part of that is ensuring the driver is licensed and competent to drive.

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by borisbeaver

Unfortunately a lot of people get caught out by this when they rent a transit van. On a dual carriageway, it is restricted to 60mph...

...Check out the speed limit for vehicles other than cars. It makes interesting reading.

A link to emphasis what borisbeaver has said...
117-126: Control of the vehicle : Directgov - Travel and transport


...

[advisee]

Originally Posted by cal37

Having a licence to drive a particular class of vehicle deems you competent and duly trained to drive the said class.

An Employer does not have to give you training to drive a vehicle you already hold a full licence for. It is your sole duty to know the relevant laws concerning the vehicles you drive.

If it was an HGV then there are different rules as an operator, part of that is ensuring the driver is licensed and competent to drive.

Not correct - you will find that most truck and bus fleets will do type-specific training for each sort of vehicle (Scania. Volvo, Dennis, etc) even for people who have held the relevant licence for 20 years.

I can assure you that it most certainly _is_ an employers duty to give training, and to keep a record that training has been given (under Heath & Safety at Work Act 1974, and other relevant legislation).

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by advisee

(under Heath & Safety at Work Act 1974, and other relevant legislation).

Heath & Safety at Work Etc. Act 1974, and other relevant legislation

[advisee]

Thanks Pat - HSWA74 for short.

[patdavies]

Advisee is absolutely right that there is a very heavy duty of care on employers to provide training.

However, it is the driver who is responsible for the offence. The fact that the driver has not been trained will not make the speeding charge, etc. go away for the driver; it will simply open up a whole new set of charges for the employer (and possibly employee).

If the employee (driver) felt that his training was insufficient (ie he wasn't competent) then his duty under H&S is to refuse to drive the vehicle until adequately trained.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by cal37

Having a licence to drive a particular class of vehicle deems you competent and duly trained to drive the said class.

An Employer does not have to give you training to drive a vehicle you already hold a full licence for. It is your sole duty to know the relevant laws concerning the vehicles you drive.

Not so. Even a hire car company should provide training to a customer as to the controls, etc. of a hire car before letting him/her drive away.

[dowbulldog]

Many thanks to all the people that have posted, in short i have taken the points and paid the fine, my company refuse point blank to take any responsibilty although I have never had any training at all regarding my company vehicle which i have driven for the past 3 years, I wouold of taken the matter further, however im sure you understand that "by rocking the boat" im only making a rod for my own back, i,ll put this one, reluctantly down to experience.

On a further note for readers, since incurring this fine it has become very apparent that most car drivers(also licenced to drive my van) are not aware of the speed restrictions, i now travel at 50mph on A roads and 60 on dual carraigeways, i am forever being honked at, or obsene gestures made to me because of me holding up traffic, its makes me wonder how many other people have been caught out by this crazy little known legistration !!!!

Thanks again everyone

[cal37]

Type-specific training is done to teach new futures on a new truck, like when Mercedes brought out the EPS gearbox. This is so you do not invalidate a warranty.

I have been on these " type-specific training " and I’m one of the 20 year licence holders and have never been taught about speed limits etc on these, in the 15 years I drove HGV`s all I ever had was once yearly assessments.

This is about to change with the drivers CPC coming out in Sept 09 but Existing driverswho already hold a vocational licence on the 10th September 2009 are exempt from the initial CPC. This is known as "acquired rights".

Yes under H&S training needs to be done and having spoken too the intelligence officer at vosa in the midlands I can say positively that they and the courts do in fact consider it’s the drivers reasonability to know the relevant laws of the vehicle they drive.

Now the local HSE dept view is (I rang them knowing these things is my job), as long as the company checks the validly of the licence they do not have to provide training to drive, they would only have to provide training on the use of equipment IE: indicators, horn tipping gear etc.
They state that it is just as much the driver’s responsibility to say if he feels he or she is not competent to drive that class of vehicle and the company would be within its rights to assume that a full licence holder knows the relevant laws and is fully trained in its use.

Trying to say in a court of law or an EAT that the reason you were speeding is because you had no training will not wash at all.

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by dowbulldog

i now travel at 50mph on A roads and 60 on dual carraigeways, i am forever being honked at, or obsene gestures made to me because of me holding up traffic, its makes me wonder how many other people have been caught out by this crazy little known legistration !!!!

An HGV is limited to 40 mph on a single carriageway, where a car can do 60 mph.

I don't believe it to be crazy legistlation. Vans and trucks are more heavily loaded than cars and as a certain Engineering Officer once said "Ye canna change the laws of physics Cap'n". The heavier an object is and the faster it is going, the harder it is to stop it or alter its course (moments of inertia, etc.).

The fact that it is little known is purely down to the drivers of such vehicles not reading the highway code. etc.

[green_and_mean]

An employers duty is to ensure an employee is correctly trained to do the duty they are employed to do this does NOT mean they have to test or train them if they have a qualification from an approved body. If I got a job as a Dr I would not expect the Hospital to make me sit all my exams again as they didn't beleive I was qualified. By providing a driving licence you are saying you are competant to drive and know the laws regarding driving. If not it would be a farce with every proffesional driver claiming his boss didn't tell him he could not drive on the pavement, do 120mph on the motorway etc etc.

[advisee]

Originally Posted by patdavies

An HGV is limited to 40 mph on a single carriageway, where a car can do 60 mph.

I don't believe it to be crazy legistlation. Vans and trucks are more heavily loaded than cars and as a certain Engineering Officer once said "Ye canna change the laws of physics Cap'n". The heavier an object is and the faster it is going, the harder it is to stop it or alter its course (moments of inertia, etc.).

The fact that it is little known is purely down to the drivers of such vehicles not reading the highway code. etc.

In general, where a car is 60 70 70 (single carriageway, dual, and motorway) a bus in 50 60 70, and a HGV 40 50 60 - less when towing a trailer.

Everyone should take a look at Department for Children, Schools and Families or purchase the new book (about £2 I think).

Pat - if the next link is up-to-date, for a van/lorry under 7.5 tonnes it is actually 50 on a single carriageway road, only over 7.5 tonne when it becomes 40: http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety...knowyourlimits