No Loading Signage

[Jerry Dandrige]

I have checked various posts and the ticket is valid as per wording etc, it is the contravention I am not sure of.

I parked in a council pay-and-display parking bay I have used weekly for the last 5 years. They had put a bin liner over the machine this time, so I got a ticket from the machine opposite. (Note: It is usual for many of the ticket machines in this area to be out of order).

Anyway when I returned I had a ticket for "02 - Parked or loading/unloading in a restricted street where waiting and loading/unloading restrictions are in force."

What really made it annoying was the Traffic Wardens watched me park and were standing by the machine on the opposite side of the road next to the working ticket machine when I got a ticket and said nothing. Just watched and waited. Then they issued the PCN just 9 mins after I had got the ticket issued from the machine. Literally waiting for me to walk around the corner up the road.

When I came back about 10 cars in the bays on that side of the road had tickets, 3 of them disabled drivers. Obviously their signage etc was inadequate.

I have done a Freedom of Information Act request to see how many tickets were issued in this road over this period and the period before to show the jump in issuance to prove their unreasonable signage.

My question is what sort of sign do they have to put up to show "no loading etc" in a bay? They had a sign of some sort but after 20 years of driving it looked like no normal road sign I have ever seen as per colours and dimensions and wasn't clear what it meant. Do they have to comply with regards to signage for this contravention, i.e. dimensions/colours?

I notice in the digital picture reproductions they posted to me when I appealed they SURE DO MAKE SURE not to show the sign that was there at the time, only side on shots! They have since put up a new standard looking sign.

The alleged "suspended" parking bay had no yellow lines or other markers on the curb whatsover.

I did appeal to the council but got a smarmy letter back saying Traffic Wardens don't have to help the public in anyway.

Really makes you enjoy paying Civil Servants their g'teed final salary linked pensions by threat of jail time doesn't it? Hehe "Civil Servant" what a joke!

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by Jerry Dandrige

What really made it annoying was the Traffic Wardens watched me park and were standing by the machine on the opposite side of the road next to the working ticket machine when I got a ticket and said nothing. Just watched and waited. Then they issued the PCN just 9 mins after I had got the ticket issued from the machine. Literally waiting for me to walk around the corner up the road.

Really makes you enjoy paying Civil Servants their g'teed final salary linked pensions by threat of jail time doesn't it? Hehe "Civil Servant" what a joke!

Nine minutes is a very long wait for you to go around the corner and how do you know it was the same person who gave you a ticket any way?

Who has threatened you with jail??

A suspended bay does need to be signed as such photos of the bay would be heklpful.

A Freedom of Information Act request is pointless obviously more tickets are going to be issued when it was restricted rather than when it was ok to park there?

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by Jerry Dandrige

I did appeal to the council but got a smarmy letter back saying Traffic Wardens don't have to help the public in anyway.

If this is a council issued ticket, then it was issued by a Parking Attendant, not a Traffic Warden. It does matter, they have very different powers.

If it was really issued by a Traffic Warden, then I am surprised that the Council even bothered to reply.

Really makes you enjoy paying Civil Servants their g'teed final salary linked pensions by threat of jail time doesn't it? Hehe "Civil Servant" what a joke!

What the hell have Civil Servants go to do with this?

No Council employee is a Civil Servant

[green_and_mean]

BTW
A suspended bay is usually signed with a yellow sign with details of suspension which can be hand written accompanied with a parking restriction roundel as seen on timeplates, the machine should also be covered, no lines are required for a temporary restriction.

90% of Council PAs are contracted staff and have no access to Council pension schemes if that makes you feel any better.

[Jerry Dandrige]

I thought I would let you know that the council admitted the ticket was unlawful before the adjudication hearing took place and put it all down to an "admin error".

I find the responses of the people here to be utterly useless, you must work in the parking fine collection industry!

edited

[adamna]

Originally Posted by Jerry Dandrige

I find the responses of the people here to be utterly useless, you must work in the parking fine collection industry!

!

I think you mean green_and_mean, and yes most likely they do. Aside from him (?) I have found a bunch of helpful folk.

Congratulatons on your success. I do know what you mean about 'civil' servants. It's so hard to find good ones these days.

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by adamna

I think you mean green_and_mean, and yes most likely they do. Aside from him (?) I have found a bunch of helpful folk.

Congratulatons on your success. I do know what you mean about 'civil' servants. It's so hard to find good ones these days.

I don't work for the parking fine collection industry and as Pat stated Parking Attendants and processing staff are not Civil servants they are Local govt employees or more likely sub contractors working for a private company. If you don't like the advice given don't listen to it simple as that. There is a difference between advice and moaning about nasty civil servants. If you ask for an opinion on the legality of a PCN i'll give an honest factual reply not a biased anti Council rant.

[robin9342]

Originally Posted by adamna

I think you mean green_and_mean, and yes most likely they do. Aside from him (?) I have found a bunch of helpful folk.

That's a little unfair. G&M is often abrupt but that doesn't make him unhelpful...

[adamna]

I find G&M very helpful actually, it's good to know how the opposition see things. I would like to know his/her area of professional expertise.

As for 'civil' servants, all those working for a local authority are doing so in the service of the constituents, who deserve some civility.

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by adamna

I find G&M very helpful actually, it's good to know how the opposition see things.

I didn't realise there was an opposition?? Advice should be factual and based on the law, not on what you percieve to be fair. No one likes getting parking tickets but sadly society has changed from the days when people had respect for each other and the law and they are a nessesary evil. Mistakes are made as they are in all legal processes and I'm happy to help those 'innocent' drivers ticketed unfairly.

[adamna]

No evil is 'necessary'.
The law is intended to be fair.
Mistakes can be made by anyone human, including those in charge of a motor vehicle.
'Mistakes' or toleration of 'mistakes' incorporated into a system is evil.
Anyone supporting evil is the opposition, including the union for the workers in the industry.
Those who get respect are more likely to give respect. Those that are treated like cattle act like cattle. Some cattle have horns, some are milked voraciously.
How do you decide who is 'innocent' and who is not?

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by adamna

No evil is 'necessary'.
The law is intended to be fair.
Mistakes can be made by anyone human, including those in charge of a motor vehicle.
'Mistakes' or toleration of 'mistakes' incorporated into a system is evil.
Anyone supporting evil is the opposition, including the union for the workers in the industry.
Those who get respect are more likely to give respect. Those that are treated like cattle act like cattle. Some cattle have horns, some are milked voraciously.
How do you decide who is 'innocent' and who is not?

If supporting the penalising of those that break the law is 'evil' what does supporting the law breakers make you??
'Innocent' motorists are those that have not broken the law surely thats a bit obvious?

[adamna]

And what makes YOU the judge of that? The councils etc persist in failing to apply to apply 'the law' fairly, or with the purpose that it was intended. If they are responsible for attention being drawn to loopholes that others take advantage of, so be it.

You still don't get it do you?

[green_and_mean]

Originally Posted by adamna

And what makes YOU the judge of that?

I am free to chose who I give advise to and when, so I am entitled to be as judgemental as I choose, thank you very much.