Parking ticket on unadopted road

[newton]

About 3yrs ago the council transferred ownership of a section of road to a housing charity- The road still has single yellow lines and parking limited to one hour in any two on the other side with associated notices and signs etc-

I have noticed the potholes increasing and road surface deteriorating so contacted the the City and County council to be told that they could not effect any repairs or maintenace to roads gullies or sewers as it was no longer an adopted road-I contacted the utilities but they said it was a private road and responsibility for repairs rests with the owners or users

The city and the county council are failing to clarify my specific questions on this matter i.e. when and why did the Queens highway go into private ownership without public consultation - because i dont remember seeing anything about this transfer.

I have identified and spoken to the housing association who were surprised to learn that they also own that road and this makes me very nervous because there is nothing to stop them from now applying clamping enforcement or in fact re-routing that part of the road to a location that suits them

I have been issued with a PCN by NCP parking lkonger than the permitted time of 1 hour - i have spoken to them and pointed out that it is a private road and they state that the traffic regualtion order (TRO) is still valid and they are allowed to ticket and it is enforceable

Under the freedom of information act i have asked the Council about the numbers of tickets issued on that road and how many parking areas they enforce on private property - because the way i see it is that is public money being utilised to maintain private roads - I am sure the principle of the Council is to enforce and maintain free flowing traffic in areas of public roads and parking- they certainly have got one aspect of it right (we will not maintain it) but the greed of the money from tickets means they want it both ways

Any advice or tips are welcome and would be usefull - because I am going to fight dis ticket

[green_and_mean]

If its the queens highway why do you expect the Council to pay for the upkeep surely she should pay? What you are talking about sounds like social/council housing being transfered to a housing trust included the upkeep of the roads on the estate? If the TRO is still valid and the public still have free access to the road I would say the NCP are correct they can still enforce the street.

[patdavies]

Yup.

Ownership is irrelevant. All that matters is that it is a public highway.

All you can do is check with the highway authority (usually county council) to see that it is still a public highway. If it is not, then the TRO is voided and NCP cannot enforce. If it is, your stiffed

[Steve__M]

I live in a new estate where the roads are not yet adopted, but where a traffic order for residential parking has been made for the whole estate and some surrounding roads.

Our police community support officer is an ex-traffic warden (it's not local authority controlled yet) and categorically stated that tickets could not be issued.

My neighbour challenged a warden issuing a ticket (not on her car) and the warden said he was entitled to issue tickets. It could be that the warden was issuing a warning rather than a ticket as the main idea is to prevent rugby fans parking on match days.

Whether they are important, obvious differences of this case are that the roads have never been adopted, and it's police controlled rather than local authority controlled (till next year).

[newton]

Originally Posted by patdavies

Yup.

Originally Posted by patdavies

Ownership is irrelevant. All that matters is that it is a public highway.

All you can do is check with the highway authority (usually county council) to see that it is still a public highway. If it is not, then the TRO is voided and NCP cannot enforce. If it is, your stiffed

This is the reply I recieved does this mean that it is no longer part of the highway?

"According to our records, the land to which you refer does not form part of the adopted highway and as such is outside the responsibility of XXX Highways. XXX XXX Street becomes unadopted after the junction with XXX Street.

Any requests for repairs should be addressed to the landowner. In the case of a new development, this is usually the developer. If the road is on a housing scheme, you should contact the local housing office. If you do not know who owns the land, you could try contacting the Land Registry on XXXX to see if the land has been registered.

In some instances, the local district council has delegated powers to carry out certain repairs on un-adopted streets but legislation says that the owners of the property fronting a private street should be responsible for the cost of the repairs.

We have logged your enquiry to advise the Highways Inspector of your concerns. "

Many thanks for your help

PS many families and pensioners who are almost on the breadline have vehicles and to be punished with a £60 fine for being two minutes late means they have to decide on food on the table or getting rid of the vehcle and potentially any independence thay have left- is that proportionate???

[newton]

A reply from the new owners of the road

"I am responding to your current email in regards to who has the ownership of the XXXX XXXX .

I have looked at are maps to see whether the land belongs to XX XX housing association unfortunately the triangle and the path does not belong to XXX XXX housing association. The drains may possibly belong to united utilities but the road is part of our ownership therefore we will carry out the relevant repairs as required.

I hope the above information has given you some help in trying to find out who the land belongs to.

If you require any further information please do not hesitate to contact me.

Regards

XXX XXX
XXX XXX housing association"

[newton]

Originally Posted by green_and_mean

If its the queens highway why do you expect the Council to pay for the upkeep surely she should pay? What you are talking about sounds like social/council housing being transfered to a housing trust included the upkeep of the roads on the estate? If the TRO is still valid and the public still have free access to the road I would say the NCP are correct they can still enforce the street.

Theres only one queen comes up and down this highway and I will tell you which number she is resident at via private message

[green_and_mean]

What is a 'private street'?

Road adoption is a term used to describe the Council taking ownership of a 'private street'.
A 'private street' is a road, which is not maintained at public expense. This means that we, as a highway authority, is under no obligation to carry out repairs or clean the street, even though it could be a public right of way to which highway and traffic law can be applied.

Taken from Solihull council website

[newton]

just had a reply from the county council under freedom of information act

" Dear Mr xxx,

Request for information under the Freedom of Information Act 2000

Further to your email, dated 16th November, in which you request the disclosure of information under the above Act, we are now in a position to respond, and attach herewith the information you have requested.

You requested details of how many PCNs have been issued on xxxxxx xxx xxx st, listed by contravention code, since the commencement of decriminalised parking enforcement.



128 PCNs have been issued on xxxx xxxx xxx in xxxx between 6th September 2004 and 19th November 2007. 24 of these have been cancelled. 7 have been paid.

15 issued for code 01 - Restricted Street - Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours
107 issued for code 30 - Free parking bays - Parked for longer than permitted
1 issued for code 15 - Permit parking bays - Parked in residents parking space without clearly displaying a valid residents parking permit
4 issued for code 22 - All parking bays - Re-parked in the same parking space within one hour (or other specified time) of leaving
1 issued for code 24 - All parking bays - Not parked correctly within the markings of the bay or space.




We trust that our response is to your satisfaction, but in the event that you wish to complain about the manner in which your enquiry has been handled, you should write in the first instance to The Freedom of Information Officer, xxxx xxxx xxxxx , or email

the second reply is thus

Dear Mr xxx ,
We are writing in response to your recent request made under the Freedom of Information Act 2000.
ParkWise, which is part of xxx xxxx council, works on behalf of all 12 District Councils to support decriminalised parking enforcement throughout the County by dealing with appeals, payments and processing of all penalty charge notices that are issued. It has no involvement in enforcement operations in respect of privately owned land.
However, it may be that some of the District Councils have agreements in place with owners whereby they undertake enforcement in respect of parking on private land such as supermarket car parks, but xxx County Council does not hold any information relevant to this. Should you wish to obtain information regarding any such agreements, you will need to contact the District Councils as the appropriate public authorities. Details of their websites, from which you should be able to obtain the contact details necessary to pursue such an enquiry are available via the xxx Portal at the following URL

Does this mean whart i think it does that they are not employed to manage parking on private land unless specifically instructed

[Princess786]

This may be a little late, but here goes....

Although the road may be 'unadopted', it is highly likely that highway rights will have still been maintained under the Highways Act 1980. It is extremly dificult to extinguish highway rights. In effect this means that pedestrians and road users may still have a right of access over the road.

As the Highway Authority has a duty of care to facilitate the safe and expeditious movement of traffic (including people), they have the power to implement Traffic Regulation Orders on streets that are not public highway. Therefore, providing a TRO has been correctly made, then it is fully enforceable. Hope this helps.