Rules on tickets?

[james C]

I was working in London and had 2 tickets on my van in the same road.....
i was parked on a pay-n-display bay and told the young lad that was working for me to move the van as the time had run out on the ticket. He got to the van as the ticket warden was writing out the ticket he leapt in a drove off before the ticket was put on the screen.
Now is the ticket valid or not ????
Also i know most councils are now taking photos to say they had put the ticket on the screen as evidence of the ticket been issued correctly. The council was Westminster council.
The other ticket was in the same road and i parked the van in the marked loading bay. The loading bay had no time limit just a sign saying loading only. I was going back and forth to the van but on return found a ticket and it said that in a word was issued because it looked to the ward that the van wasn't been loaded or unloaded. I would be buggered if i was going to leave my back doors open in the middle of Kilburn just to prove i was loading or unloading! The council that put this ticket on my van was Brent council....
What sort of rules do they play by on loading bays with no time limits?

[green_and_mean]

In London you are only permitted to load for a maximum of 20 mins during the day.

[patdavies]

The first ticket is void. A PA-issued PCN must be affixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver.

As to the second, there is no basis whatsoever in law, for limiting loading to 20 minutes. This has been accepted by the adjudicator. It is used as as reasonable guideline and as such can be challenged.

However, loading/unloading must be a continuous process.

[james C]

The sign for loading unloading DID NOT have the usual 20 min limit which i thought was unusual. Its the normal practice to lock a vehiclein the middle of london. i think the sign is wrong for not limiting me for 20 min regardless of the van been open or not, as it seems the ticket warden has missed seeing anyone attending to the van.
How would a ticket warden prove the van was not being unloaded or loaded? The ticket only said "believed to be not unloading or loading" without the time scale he could just walk past and slap a ticket just because the doors are shut.
If i wanted to appeal to this ticket ( which i do) what would be the best way to word it?

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

James, you will need evidence that you were loading and the burden is quite high if it was for a long period. Can you scan and post the tickets for us to look at. There may be other grounds to appeal.

[james C]

Originally Posted by patdavies

The first ticket is void. A PA-issued PCN must be affixed to the vehicle or handed to the driver.

As to the second, there is no basis whatsoever in law, for limiting loading to 20 minutes. This has been accepted by the adjudicator. It is used as as reasonable guideline and as such can be challenged.

However, loading/unloading must be a continuous process.

So The best thing is to ask for a photo to prove that the ticket was issued or would they be sneaky and say it was given to the driver. Then what?

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by james C

So The best thing is to ask for a photo to prove that the ticket was issued or would they be sneaky and say it was given to the driver. Then what?

Presumably, you don't have a physical ticket?

If they send an NtO, then appeal it there as no PCN was issued. If it goes to the adjudicator, then you assert that it was a drive-off and no PCN was issued.