Help it was dark when I parked, signs not lit

[samspam]

I recently parked at Lymm Services managed by parking eye.

I drove in to the services at 8.30 pm, met a friedn and went in their car for dinner, came bacl to the services, had coffee and left at 1.15.

I did not see ANY signs in the dark, and was unaware that there was a 2 hour parking limit until I received the notice from parking eye. I called up and asked how to appeal since the signs are not visible in the dark and was told that I had no appeal as it was a 24 hour services.

My 14 day period is up on Tuesday and I do not want the fine to go up, but I also don't want to pay the fine out of principle as the signs were not lit.

I have read many threads on this forum but can't find any relating to unlit signs, does anyone have any experience with Parking Eye if I write and refuse to pay on these grounds.

[Rab]

Hi There,

Have a look at the sticky below:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...s-charges.html

There are ways out of it

[Chesterexpress]

The signs at Lymm services are very clear and the car park is extremely well lit, so signs are readable.

[Barnsley Boy]

Hi,

I urge to look up the link that Rab has put down.

This is a private parking charge. It has no legal status other than an "alleged contract" formed with the driver. In most cases this is complete bo**ocks.

Read the wealth of information both here and on PEPIPOO regarding private parking tickets. They are a scam. Ignore correspondance from them until you get a letter claiming to be from a debt collection agency. Reply to them stating the debt is disputed and should be refered back to the parking company.

Stand firm - DO NOT PAY

I don't find the comments from chesterexpress to be particularly helpful - does he work for the scammers?

[Chesterexpress]

Barnsley, first off I do not work for any scammers. However it annoys me that people think they have the right to park wherever they want for free. Businesses have to pay for the land and then have to pay business rates on top. Lymm services give 2 hours free, therefore after that they ought to pay the charges as stated on the numerous signs. Why should people be allowed to park there and go off for the day/night for free, which happens often at Lymm.

[Barnsley Boy]

Chesterexpress

I don't want to get into a slanging match, so let's not.

You are entitled to a point of view but you should not argue that black is white.

These parking companies do play fast and loose with the law. Despite what they claim, they have no right to issue penalties, fines, charges, call them what you like. If there was any contract established, big if, and if the motorist were found to be in breech of said contract, then the LANDOWNER would be entitled to recoverery of reasonable costs, damages in other words.

The Private Parking Companies use peoples ignorance of the law and routinely employ intimidation tactics. They are not nice people.

[Chesterexpress]

Barnsley, I am not getting into any slanging match. And yes I agree there are plenty of rogue parking companies around. However that doesn't alter the fact that people can't just choose to park wherever they want and expect to get away with it for free.

[Sidewinder]

Samspam - if the top and bottom of your case is that if you did not see the signs for whatever reason, no contract can have been formed where you agreed to pay Parking Eye a fee for breaching the terms of that contract. The sticky on the front page of the forum gives a wealth of information on contracts relating to private parking and should provide you with an adequate means of defence. Rightly or wrongly (as perceived by some) Parking Eye may only successfully sue you for their parking charge if it can be proven that you read, understood and agreed to the terms of a contract. No doubt they will chase you and threaten debt collectors, increasing costs and court action, but in the end a successful court case would rely on prrof that the contract was formed.

[Chesterexpress]

The signs at Lymm are perfectly clear in that they allow you 2 hours free parking, after that you must pay the advertised charges. Therefore not only can they chase you for the outstanding parking charges, but also there reasonable costs in recovering those charges.

[patdavies]

Chesterexpress, I suggest that you take the time to read the sticky about private parking charges.

You will then find that they are not legally able to pursue the charges.

[Sidewinder]

Originally Posted by Chesterexpress

The signs at Lymm are perfectly clear in that they allow you 2 hours free parking, after that you must pay the advertised charges. Therefore not only can they chase you for the outstanding parking charges, but also there reasonable costs in recovering those charges.

The signs may be perfectly clear if you see them, read the content and understand the terms, but may only be used to recover a fee if it can be proven that this process occurred. The OP states they did not see any signs therefore no contract can be breached nor enforced as it cannot be proven that one existed. Evidence on the part of the parking company might be video to show the OP walking up to a sign and studying it, but (taking it to an extreme) what if the OP were to be dyslexic or a non-English visitor. Would the contract exist in those cases?

[Chesterexpress]

Originally Posted by patdavies

Chesterexpress, I suggest that you take the time to read the sticky about private parking charges.

You will then find that they are not legally able to pursue the charges.

That is where you are wrong again, as they are able to pursue the charges. As I have stated the signs at Lymm are perfectly clear and make it clear if you wish to park for longer than 2 hours, then you must purchase a ticket in order to do so. Therefore they have every right to follow up and take whatever legal action available to them to recover those charges and that will also include their costs in doing so.

[samspam]

Thank you everyone for your comments.

Chesterexpress, I have been back in the day time and there are a wealth of signs, however I could not see any in the dark, and I even used the services so walked around them. I have taken photo's of the signs and there are no lights on them or are they refelctive in any way, they are also positioned high from the ground which does not allow car headlights to pick up the signs.

Whilst I agree that with your comments regarding to land owners paying rates etc, I would rather have seen the sign and paid for extra parking time, or I would have taken my car to the restaurant I was going to in Lymm instead of trying to save fuel / the planet etc by car sharing.

If the fine was in proportion to the 'crime' then again I may not have a problem paying and put it down to experience, but let me tell you when I left the services after a bad cup of coffee, I even wondered in my head if there were any parking limits and had a look round, trust me, those signs are not visible in the dark unless you KNOW that they are there.

I am going back tonight to take pictures in the dark, just to make doubly sure I am right.

I really hate all this, it's so time consuming but I know that is what these companies thrive on, people being too busy to challenge them.

[samspam]

I have been back to the services, still impossible to read even knowing where they are now in fact I still can't tell you what it says on them, maybe I just haven't eaten enough carrots in my lifetime to be able to see well enough in the dark!

I am sending a letter today stating I'm not in breach as I couldn't read the terms.

I also noticed today when I went to Tesco's that there was a sign on the way in about 8 foot from the ground regarding parking, yet I could only find 1 other sign in the whole car park and not one near the parent and child or disabled parking even though the sign related in some part to parking in those spaces, these companies are taking the **** if they think that people park their car then go on a hunt with 2 small kids / elderly relative round a car park on the off chance that there are some parking conditions too high up for you read.

If the owner or the land wants to be sure that people pay, wouldn't it be easier to operate a barrier and ticket system that way you can't leave without paying?

At least that would put these rip off PPC's out of business!

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Originally Posted by samspam

I am sending a letter today stating I'm not in breach as I couldn't read the terms.

Be cautious, that will mean you are identifying yourself as the driver.

For now I would do nothing. OK you expose yourself to a threat of an increased "penalty" but as with all these things the central plank is that it is unenforceable.

If you write to them now, I reckon you will unnecessarily give away information and they will ignore your points anyway.

The choice is yours though!

[samspam]

Originally Posted by Bernie_the_Bolt

Be cautious, that will mean you are identifying yourself as the driver.

For now I would do nothing. OK you expose yourself to a threat of an increased "penalty" but as with all these things the central plank is that it is unenforceable.

If you write to them now, I reckon you will unnecessarily give away information and they will ignore your points anyway.

The choice is yours though!

Thanks for that, and I agree to soem extent they won't take any notice, but I'd already phoned them to 'have a go' before findong this forum, so if ut's true that they record your conversations then I've already admitted that I was the driver.