Council Park and Ride

[tzaddiqim]

Hi,

Near to where I go to university in Durham there is a handy ‘park and ride’ car park. It is clearly ladled "Durham City Park and Ride" however there are no signs saying that it is necessary to pay for the bus service in order to park apart from a notice in size 12 font on the bus stop building 500m away from the furthest point in the car park.

Yesterday I received a warning notice about using the car park and not taking the bus. When I queried this with help line they said that it is 'sufficiently obvious that you must take the bus in order to use the car park' and that ‘the council would know better’ than me about the required signage.

I also suggested that the offence I was warned about was 'not paying the charge' and asked for details of the parking charge, she respond that there is no charge for parking however you have to pay to take the bus and then parking would be free.

So I suggested that I could buy a ticket for the bus and display it in my car, her response was that I would have to take the bus into town then back out to the car park anyway because that's how they monitor usage.

I object to paying to park and I object more to spending 30mins on a bus I don't need to take! I live along way (30mins) from the buildings I use and a bus journey would take more than 90mins so I have little choice other than using this car park.

Any comments on the legality of their/my position, do I need to pay? Do I need to get on the bus? How would I go about proving it?

Cheers
Brett

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

That's interesting. I bet they have no traffic order putting into effect what they are saying.

You could ask for it but what will that achieve?

I'd be inclined to ignore it and if you get a PCN contest on inadequate sign.

Where do the other students park?

[Chesterexpress]

Sorry, but I am with the council on this one. It is a park & ride scheme, therefore it is intended for the use of those parking out of town and then getting the bus into town. Why should anyone who lives or works close to the facility be allowed to use it just to park? If everyone did this, then there would be nowhere for legitimate users to park. Also even if you did take the bus in and straight out again, I would imagine the rules are that you are no longer allowed to park there and would have to leave the car park. Some people are so selfish and only think of themselves and try to abuse the system.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Originally Posted by Chesterexpress

Sorry, but I am with the council on this one. It is a park & ride scheme, therefore it is intended for the use of those parking out of town and then getting the bus into town. Why should anyone who lives or works close to the facility be allowed to use it just to park? If everyone did this, then there would be nowhere for legitimate users to park. Also even if you did take the bus in and straight out again, I would imagine the rules are that you are no longer allowed to park there and would have to leave the car park. Some people are so selfish and only think of themselves and try to abuse the system.

Is this for real?
If the council wants to restrict use of a public car park the law requires them to have a TMO (if necessary) sign it accordingly. From what the OP says they don't seem to have done this.

[Chesterexpress]

Yes bernie this is for real, it is all about people being responsible. As it is obviously a park and ride car park, then the OP should not be parking in it. Quite simple really.

[Sidewinder]

I would have thought that a reasonable man would check available information such as the Durham City Park & Ride website here to establish what is permissible and what is not in the absence of any adequate signs at the site.

"The Durham Park and Ride service offers free parking at any of the Belmont, Sniperley or Howlands sites and provides travel into the city centre for as little as £1.70 a day"

It does not seem to suggest that to qualify for 'free' parking one has to use the paid for bus service. A reasonable man who looks for further information might also find that in the planning for the Park & Ride the Council made mention of preserving the parking facilities for the University.

OK - the intention may be for people using the Park & Ride to only do so when paying for the bus service, but in that respect the Council should make the situation absolutely clear and not open to interpretation, both through signage and the required Traffic Order in order to enforce it.

[tzaddiqim]

Sorry I wasn't clear but I would be prepared to pay to park, even pay the same as people taking the bus; it would still be by far the cheaspest and easiest option for me. The bus tickets are also valid all day for any number of uses to any of the park and ride sites. I've also learn't that I could take the bus for 7 mins down the road get off then walk back to where I want to be which would actaully save me a bit of a walk... although make me feel tremendously lazy.

Having now looked at their website it does sate in at least 20 places that parking is free and that the cost of bus transport is only £1.50. At no point does it mention that free parking is dependant on taking the bus.

As I have chosen to live with my parents and not in halls like 90% of my fellow students I am not entitled to any parking space within the univeristy- go figure- and the nearest public car park where I could pay for parking is actually in the city centre... hence contributing to the congestion in the centre.. which makes a whole lot of sense from the park and ride's ideological position.

I also found the question below on the councils website, it seems foolish for the council to take this position when people would be prepared to pay just to park. The car parks that have been built are way beyond current needs (oddly far slighted for a council), being very sad and studying economics I did a survey over this week and the car park is never over 2/3 full usually closer to half; so displacing Park and Ride users is no argument at all. Also at least 2 of the 3 car parks involved have very safe and easy routes to walk into the city, I guess I just have to take it up with the council.

Cheers for advice, in the event that I get a parking ticket after buying the bus ticket and not taking the bus I don't think it will be ahrd to contest it and that maight even make them think about chaging their policy.
Question

I work in Durham City and on some occasions park my car at the Sniperley Park and Ride. As I enjoy free parking at my place of employment my purpose in parking at Sniperley is to be able to walk into Durham in order to fit some exercise into my working day. I never use the bus service. I understand that it is not a free car park and that the scheme has to be funded and I am happy to contribute something to it but don't believe it is fair to pay the same as someone intending to park and use the bus. In this day and age of rising obesity levels it would be a good opportunity for the Council to encourage people to walk by offering some discounted rate for them to leave their cars at any of the Park and Rides so that they could do this. The council takes part in the Strong, Healthy and Safe Communities Partnership / initiatives so why not make a concession to people such as me?


Answer

The Park and Ride scheme has been specifically provided for those wishing to park and travel to the City Centre using the dedicated bus services that are provided. As part of our parking strategy for the City, this has reduced the demand for long-stay parking in the City and increased the availability of short-stay parking. The scheme has been extremely successful and consequently the capacity of the car parks needs to be retained for park and ride purposes, particularly in view of the steadily increasing use and anticipated future demand. Whilst it is appreciated that Mrs. Sullivan is prepared to pay a contribution, parking in such a way could displace legitimate park and ride users. In fact, regulations have been in place since the sites opened to limit the use of the car parks for park and ride purposes only.
The County Council is of course keen to encourage walking and cycling as an alternative to car use where possible. However, those who may wish to leave their car and walk into the City can consider a number of alternative options, such as the use of the pay and display parking facilities or the use of public transport for part of their journey. It should also be noted that the location of the Park and Ride sites have not been specifically chosen with safe walking routes in mind, the intention being to intercept car traffic intending to park within the City Centre.