Parking Tickets

[bitbob]

Thanks, for the info on the updates.

I am sure the three sizes allowed for Yellow lines, in brackets on diagram, correspond to limits under 40mph, sensitive areas and one other situation....if you know the three situations please let me know ......i know i have seen it in writing but i can't find it now.

.....oh there it is in Seylectric's post further up.......do you recall were the info came from?

[bitbob]

Originally Posted by seylectric

There are actually three acceptable widths:

100mm is the standard width, 75mm can be used in areas where the speed limit is less than 40mph (so expect these to be the most common) and 50mm in "environmentally sensitive areas". So the yellow line has to be EXACTLY this width. Again the law doesn't officially permit any deviation from this so if a "75mm" line is 74 or 76mm ALONG IT'S WHOLE LENGTH it's invalid! Hey, we didn't make the rules!

I guess it all means that yellow lines in areas under 40 mph must be between 130 - 67.5mm (+30%/-10% of 100mm & 75mm) to be enforcable (not inc sensitive areas) considering the allowable tolerance (permitted variations) for Sch. 6 marking in the regs.

But don't forget the bars on the ends there is only one size for these and the tolerances would mean they have to be no more than 195mm or no less than 135mm (+30%/-10% of 150mm) from the edge of the continuous yellow line.

[seylectric]

Contradicts the other regs I mentioned then. So one lot says variations are not permitted, another says they are. Which are to be taken as legally correct?





*wanders away quietly.....*

[bitbob]

Permitted Variations & Permitted Variants....slight difference in wording.

So you could have permitted variations of permitted variants......i.e. allowed tolerance of the different allowed sizes.

had me thinking it contradicted itself for a while .

[Azazal23]

Cheers, ive just sent the guy a letter asking fo all the relevent documenation, that should stall em for a while. the guy said himself all the docs where in transit awaiting to be archived, probably lost in other words.

[Azazal23]

Is there a time limit they can persue for these, ive just received last week, a a letter from the courts for a warrant for my arrest. After callling them to find out whats its in relation to they said they couldnt tell me other than they thought it was a parking offense. Wrote a letter asking for details they just got back today, ots from 2-11-2001!!!!!

The ofsense took place in Liverpool and i was working in Leeds at the time, my car was at home.

They said that all the paperwork, is in transit ie. beeing archived. How do i proceed, ask for copies of the original docs? copy of the ticket, court paperwork etc...

This is the first time i have received anything from them

[seylectric]

Sounds like it's for non-payment of a fine. Can't happen now if the schemes are council run because it's decriminalised but it wouldn't have been in 2001, the ticket would have been issued by the police.

All motoring offences, to the best of my knowledge, must be charged within 6 months of the date of the offence but I don't think there's a time lmit for collection of any subsequent fines. This could have been issued in error, sounds like a job for a solicitor or visit www.pepipoo.co.uk for good advice.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by seylectric

The point here is that it's grossly unfair of councils to penalise people for not obeying local by-laws if they don't know those by-laws exist, especially if there is no way of knowing if there are no signs up. Do you check every by-law of every locality you enter? Of course you don't! Should you be reasonably expected to? Of course you shouldn't! But councils are using this sort of thing simply to make money out of people and for that there IS no excuse.

As for the broken double (or single) yellow lines issue, sorry but you are incorrect. The law states that the line has to be solid, i.e. unbroken. If it isn't it's not a legal yellow line and can't (or shouldn't) be enforced, where you are parked on it is irrelevant.

Correct
Also if the line is obscured at any part by fallen leaves or other debris it MAY not be valid. They can't charge us taxes & not clear the gutter. As the courts have said "they can't have it both ways"
If the line is broken by recent or old road works (they came along & dug a hole) its not valid.
If the road surface has broken up removing part of the line it isn't valid
If there is no end T bar it isn't valid
The list is endless & most motorists wouldn't pay a parking ticket if they knew
Carry a camera & if you get a ticket take plenty of photos making sure that your photos are able to ID location. Follow the line a take photos when you see any of the above markings even if they look legal

If you enter a private car park such as a supermarket & there are signs telling you that not complying or overstaying will result in you being 'fined' or paying a 'penalty'
Write to the parking company AND the store or other C/P owner & ask under which statute they are able to issue 'fines' or penalties' They aren't & its illegal for them to imply they can & it makes their tickets unenforcable

One of the biggest culprits for claiming this are the hospital car parks who tend to use the term 'penalty' a lot on the assumption that being a hospital people will assume they can. They cant

[seylectric]

Exactly, and one of the biggest issues for me is that councils expect us to obey th law but flout it themselves.

For example my stepson recently received a Notice to Owner relating to a parking ticket he had never got. We appealed on the basis that no ticket had been issued as far as we knew, but the appeal was rejected in a letter this morning:

"After careful consideration of the circumstances I have found no grounds for the cancellation of the charge. The PCN was correctly issued blah blah..."

So what? The PCN might well have been "correctly issued" but the law states something like it must be handed to the driver or stuck to the vehicle. It wasn't, the Notice to Owner was the first we knew about it (and I was with him on the day of the incident, he WAS parked partly on a bus stop but there was no ticket on the car when we got back to it).

If the driver wasn't issued with the PCN then whether he was illegally parked or not is irrelevant. What gives them the right to ignore the law? The council are either ignoring the law or are totally ignorant of it, next step will be to write back to them quoting the law in this case. I will invite the parking manager to offer his resignation.

This is all incidental anyway as the PCNs in my locality are illegally worded, more details in this thread:

Your parking ticket may be unlawful

There's a lot of it but it's an interesting read...

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[Mumofthreeboys]

My DH had something similar to this. At the time he was a courier driver. He had just finished delivering to a chemist and was getting back in the van, when a car pulled up, the passenger got out and shouted at him 'you've just got yourself a ticket' then got back in the car and drove off.

He didn't think any more of it - until that is, an unpaid parking notice arrived. I wrote to them, but to no avail and we have since paid it, because the charges had already escalated as we hadn't paid the earlier fine that we didn't have!

I wonder if we can get the money back - must be worth a try, especially as it's illegal on quite a lot of counts.

[seylectric]

You will find more informative reading on the other thread I posted, link in the thread above your post.

[Mumofthreeboys]

Originally Posted by seylectric

You will find more informative reading on the other thread I posted, link in the thread above your post.

Just read it all. Thanks for that, v interesting indeed.

I will do some contemplating over the weekend and compose a suitable letter me thinks!!

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Mumofthreeboys

Just read it all. Thanks for that, v interesting indeed.

I will do some contemplating over the weekend and compose a suitable letter me thinks!!

Parking tickets, speeding? go here http://www.pepipoo.com great site & the motoring equivalent of this one

[Sgian]

The yellow lines on the road are only a visual indication to the driver that there is a parking restriction in force. It is the PLATE mounted beside the road which states what the parking restriction is that must be correct in size, colour, wording - NOT the yellow lines. If the yellow lines are broken, or the wrong size, shape, shade of yellow - it makes no difference. A Fixed Penalty Notice can be issued and is enforcible as long as the plate is correct.

[seylectric]

Sorry, I've no idea what you got that little gem from but it's complete nonsense. In any event unless there are any particular restrictions there is no legal requirement for a plate anymore.

From Leicestershire CC's website:
"Do yellow lines always need a sign?"

"Not any more. Since January 2003 signs aren’t needed for ‘no waiting at any time’ unless it is a seasonal restriction"

I got a ticket as my moeny had run out in a car park.

At the top it says Penalty charge notice...Im guessing this is the correct wording? I checked everything else on this thread.

[seylectric]

That's correct, if you want to email a copy to me I can check it for you though.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by Lueeze

I got a ticket as my moeny had run out in a car park.

At the top it says Penalty charge notice...Im guessing this is the correct wording? I checked everything else on this thread.

No the wording is wrong.

Since decriminalised parking was introduced local authorities have no power to issue “fines” which are by implication the same as “penalties”.

Most authorities where this term has been challenged have stopped using it.

A fixed penalty can only be given if you agree to it otherwise only a court of law can impose a “fine” or “penalty” It says so in "The Bill of Rights"

If the ticket refers to it being a fine or penalty it is invalid & frankly I’m surprised there are still councils out there still doing this but then I shouldn’t be I suppose

Also does it have a date of offence & date of issue & clear location?

The markings MUST comply with regulations & there should be no breaks. The lines must be of a specified size & have T bars donating their ends.

If Mr Utility comes along & digs a hole then fills it in but doesn’t replace the P/R lines then any restriction is invalid.

There are a multitude of other circumstances to numerous to go through here which invalidate parking restrictions & if you knew them all its highly unlikely you would ever pay another parking ticket

I will post links to some very good sites in my next post just that I have so much running on the PC at the moment it’ll take me a while

Watch out for the term "Penalty" in private car parks. s/markets hospitals etc they are all unenforcable although because most of these people are both arrogant AND stupid there are times when you may have to go to court to prove it

[seylectric]

Very interesting info about the word "Penalty" because alomst every parking ticket is officially referred to as a PCN - Penalty Charge Notice - and I haven't seen one that is worded differently, as far as I know that's the correct official wording. The main issue over wording on tickets seems to be the wording surrounding the date, i.e. if it doesn't have "Date of Issue" it's wrongly worded and it also must show a Date of Contravention. Blackpool's tickets are illegal on this score because they only show a Date of Offence.

Far more legal info in the other thread referred to earlier to be honest, shame we have to similar threads going really.

	Fight a Motoring Ticket kit Follow this link to read the review of the "Fight a motoring ticket" kit by Lawpack. Everything you need to challenge your motoring ticket. Most motoring tickets go unchallenged. Most which are challenged are challenged successfully.

[Sgian]

Originally Posted by seylectric

Sorry, I've no idea what you got that little gem from but it's complete nonsense.

Got it direct from the Central Ticket Office, Strathclyde Police HQ, Pitt St, Glasgow.
This is the office that accepts the money, or issues the court summons for unpaid fixed penalty notices. They also issue the procedures, restrictions, and legislation to all Traffic Wardens in the Strathclyde region. According to them, the legislation in Scotland regarding yellow lines is just as I explained in my previous post.


edit to add: Traffic Wardens are still employed by the Police in many parts of Scotland, even in areas where the local council have their own Parking Attendants operating. The TWs enforce yellow lines, controlled parking areas, and on-street parking. The PAs stick to local authority car parks.