Sainsburys to Intrum Justitia cca request, application received

[Secretjay]

Hi,

I received a letter in Feb 09 from Intrum Justitia (IJ) saying my Sainsburys Credit Card debt had been sold to them. I'd never heard of IJ so I cca'd them.

I received a reply in April 09 stating they had contacted Sainsburys but were unable to supply me with my agreement and that they would pass the debt back to Sainsburys and that I would hear no more from IJ.

On 6th May 09 IJ contacted me again by sending a copy of the application form which was signed by me in April 2003. In their letter they write 'we have enclosed a copy of the credit agreement.'

It is a very bad copy, the small words are mostly unreadable. I don't see anywhere the interest rate or anywhere that they have signed although there's alot of numbers and letters at the bottom of the form.

Should I just dispute this and pay nothing at all?


Any help would be appreciated.

[supasnooper]

If it is illegible and you cannot read, would a Judge be able to ?

Write again to Sainsburys requesting a legible copy of the Consumer Credit Agreement. ( Do NOT segn and send Recorded Delivery )

Post back here with their response.

[Secretjay]

Hi,

Are their any template letters for 'an illegible application form' being sent after a cca request?

I can't seem to find any and I'm no good at letter writing.

Many thanks
Sjay

[Secretjay]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me if this letter is correct and makes sense. I am trying to make the point of it being illegible and not containing all the prescribed terms as it is just an application form. All the information I have gathered is from this wonderful site.

Thanks in advance
Sjay





Dear Sir / Madam

Thank you for your response to my letter dated 2nd February 2009, making a formal request for a true copy of the original agreement for the above account under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Section 77/78.

The document you supplied me is no more than an illegible application form and is such not a satisfactory response to my request.

To clarify, The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 SI No 1557 states:

Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms 2(1).
The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the colour of the paper.

Notwithstanding the fact that the application form sent is illegible it does not contain the prescribed terms. The required terms are laid out in regulations (SI 1983/1553) and are covered by sections 60 and 61 Consumer Credit Act 1974

To clarify s61(1) states

(1)A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless—

(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and

(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and

(c) The document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible

In addition the prescribed terms referred to in section 60 CCA1974 are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are, among other things: - A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

1.Number of repayments;
2.Amount of repayments;
3.Frequency and timing of repayments;
4.Dates of repayments;
5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

Since this document does not contain the required prescribed terms it is rendered unenforceable by s127 (3) consumer Credit Act 1974, which states

127(3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a)(signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner).

To summarise, it would appear that this illegible application form is unenforceable as it has have been improperly executed. The form does not contain all the prescribed terms set out in the Consumer Credit Act namely, the application does not state the credit limit, the rate of interest, details of any power to vary the agreement or debtors repayment obligations. All this is difficult to determine when referring to your agreement as it is virtually impossible to read. I believe that this application form is improperly executed, and as a consequence is unenforceable as an example see (Wilson v First County Trust CA).

I now request

(a) that you send me a legible, true copy of the executed agreement as required by the Consumer Credit Act 1974. It would appear to me that sending the correct signed copy (rather than an illegible application form) would clarify matters completely. If you are unable to supply the requested documentation because no such agreement is in existence I require written clarification as such.

(b) that you comply with my request within 14 days of the date of this letter. I will not correspond any further with you until I either receive a copy of the required documents as laid down in section 78(1) CCA 74, or clarification that such an agreement doesn’t exist.




I trust this outines the situation



Yours Faithfully

[supasnooper]

Looks fine to me.

[Secretjay]

Thanks supasnooper, I sent the letter today.

[Secretjay]

Hi,

Received a reply today stating


'I can confirm that as this account relates to revolving credit, the information supplied is sufficient in accordance with Section 77 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act. However, if you believe that this information is untrue and you are not the liable party, please provide evidence as such so we may investigate further on your behalf.'


They seemed to have ignored most of the letter I sent regarding it being illegible, not being properly executed as some of the prescribed terms were missing and they haven't confirmed whether they have a true copy of the executed agreement.

Will I ignore this letter or sent a reply??
Any thoughts please

Thanks
Sjay

[supasnooper]

Typical response I'm afraid.

Have alook at this thread if you wish to force them to disclose your agreement - why you shouldnt use section 77/78 CCA 1974 if you want the signed agreement

[Secretjay]

Hi supa,

had a read of that thread - fantastic, full of info. But I'm confused what to do next.

I haven't heard anything from Intrum Justitia since the last letter I received on 19th June 09. I didn't reply to it.

I'm worried as to what will happen now.
Sjay