NTL Late Penalty Charges & No DD Penalty Fee

[adamski]

Hi All
I have just this minuite come off the phone after paying my NTL bill and they have informed me that they have just introduced a as they quoted on the phone a "late penalty charge" of 10 pounds which i have had to pay, i informed the operator that it is illegal to have a late penalty charge and she informed me that it was new this month, also that i have to pay a penalty of 1 pound per month for not using direct debit to pay my bill she also said it was a penalty, and then quickly changed her mind and said it was an admin charge, i know its only a pound but when i use my debit card in shops they dont charge me a pound if they all did that we would allbe complaining, my wife says that its more people intensive to collect money otherwise but surely Direct Debit involves people somewhere along the line?
I think this may be the shape of things to come a 10 pound charge is within the OFTs guidelines of 12 pounds but this seems like a worrying thing companys that never used to charge start charging are beginning to charge with immediate Watch out peeps!!



Lloyds TSB Data Protection Act sent 8th june

	The Direct Debit Guarantee • The Guarantee is offered by all Banks and Building Societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own Bank or Building Society. • If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, we will notify you three working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. • If an error is made by us or by your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid. • You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing your Bank or Building Society. Please also send a copy of your letter to us. This is a term of your banking contract and you can sue on it.

[Bookworm]

Where do I start...

There is no such thing as an OFT guideline, as said many many MANY times on this forum.
There is a level at which the OFT themselves will take legal action, and their threshold is £12.
The OFT has made it very clear that below £12 myy still constitute a penalty charge and that only a judge can decide what constitutes a penalty charge.
Finally, the OFT's statement only applies to credit cards, and telephone billing would be so far outside their remit on this occasion that it's not even worth looking.

On a separate note, it may be that you have only just charged the £10, but it has been introduced since April 1st. The OFT statement was made on April 5th.

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[adamski]

Sorry but i was under the impression that penalty charges were illegal regardless of what you pay for? if i am wrong then i apologise for my ignorance, i was only useing the OFT as i said a "guideline" to possibly help users of this forum to be aware of whats happening to NTL customers most of us did not know they introduced it on April the 1st and i have not seen this posted here again i apologise for my ignorance if i am wrong but i could not read all the posts on this website in the short time i have been here.
Regards
adamski

[MARTIN3030]

Amazing I think NTL is now (or about to be) part of Telewest following a buyout/merger.

Both Telewest and BT now see it as ok to make late penalty charges as well as a non direct debit admin fee.

I am awaiting Data Protection Act from Telewest to take this to the court.
A mate of mine is doing the same with BT.

A member on this site has threatened to cancel his services and as a result of him actioning that they have given him lots of freebies (Telewest)
I am tempted to do the same only it does not address the issues both of legality and costs.

I would advise you to consider one of 2 options....complain about it and all the evidence is that they will look after your account in a way not seen before nudge nudge wink wink.................or start the ball rolling for recovery of charges and a challenge as to the legality of them.

I can see that they have limited the admin charge to 1.00 .....and I expect the others will now be looking closely at that figure.

I think they arrived at that 1.00 as if they actually set it at 50p it would probably then cost them more to administer it !!!

	The Direct Debit Guarantee • The Guarantee is offered by all Banks and Building Societies that take part in the Direct Debit Scheme. The efficiency and security of the Scheme is monitored and protected by your own Bank or Building Society. • If the amounts to be paid or the payment dates change, we will notify you three working days in advance of your account being debited or as otherwise agreed. • If an error is made by us or by your Bank or Building Society, you are guaranteed a full and immediate refund from your branch of the amount paid. • You can cancel a Direct Debit at any time by writing your Bank or Building Society. Please also send a copy of your letter to us. This is a term of your banking contract and you can sue on it.

[Bookworm]

They ARE unlawful regardless of what company charges you, yes. What gives you the impression they're not in what I said?

You made a connection in your post that this may be linked to the OFT's announcement, and I advised that this isn't the case. You also seem to imply that the OFT would accept a £10 charge as acceptable. They don't.

The main point is that ONLY a judge can decide what's lawful and what's not. I have said on a Telewest thread (they do the same) that in my opinion, the £10 is a penalty charge, especially considering that they already factor in additional administrative costs in possible late payers by adding £4 to non-DD payers. The lawfulness of this would also have to be detemined separately as we do not know that every non-DD payer actually pays late, and in this manner, the £4 may well be subsidising actual late payers at the detriment of all non-DD payers. It may well be however that £4 is a more realistic figure. But then, there would be truly no justification for the £10 late payment.

Your post gave the impression that the £10 was somehow endorsed by the OFT statement, and therefore could not be challenged. That is quite obviously not the case, and anyone who feels that, should indeed challenge their telephony company on the same contract law basis that we apply to bank and c/c charges.

Hope this clarifies things.

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[MARTIN3030]

Sorry BW

But these charges ARE being challenged and the telephone service providers are getting jittery.

I know of at least 3 cases wher they have either dropped the charge or are giving freebies !!

[Bookworm]

Your post gave the impression that the £10 was somehow endorsed by the OFT statement, and therefore could not be challenged. That is quite obviously not the case, and anyone who feels that, should indeed challenge their telephony company on the same contract law basis that we apply to bank and c/c charges.

No, I'm sorry, am I being unclear here???

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[adamski]

ok i will not post about this again
Apologies for wasting everyones time

[MARTIN3030]

Originally Posted by adamski

ok i will not post about this again
Apologies for wasting everyones time

No youre not wasting everyones time.
BW was I think pointing out that the OFT ruling was not one that specifically can be used for everything.

Simply this was used as a guideline for the matters being referred too namely credit cards etc.

He is agreed about the question of penalties being unlawful and if you read his post again its clear on that.

May I suggest you monitor the threads throughout the site which will give more info.

I have one started in the consumer group theres nothing to stop you doping the same and lets follow the progress there.

[MARTIN3030]

Sorry Doing not doping.................be en a long day !!