OFT v Banks - **House of Lords Appeal 23rd June 2009**

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi Guys,Can someone tell me please what has happened to cidb. There also used to be a chatroom link from CAG but it appears to no longer be online. Does anybody know if the site has ceased working.Thanks.TheyrCrimi nals

[yourbank]

YouComment Chat Room
That is the link you wanted. Just went into the chatroom

[yourbank]

Looks like it is part of Blueskies new forum. Coolio.

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi Guys,

Just to let you know that my documentary research on bank charges and their impact on people's lives and the possible link between bank charges and suicide has now been moved to:

TheyrCriminals What effect has Bank Charges had on you??

If any of you have stories of how these charges have affected your quality of life and any effects on your health I would like to hear from you.

TheyrCriminals

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[SPROUTY]

COMMERCIAL COURT LIST

COURT 76
Before MR JUSTICE ANDREW SMITH
Wednesday 21 January 2009
At 10:00
FOR JUDGMENT
2007-1186 Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC

I believe this to be the announcement re NatWests charges being able to be tested as a penalty.

STAND BY FOR THE FIREWORKS IF THEY DONT GET IT!

[SPROUTY]

FOUND THIS ON robertson-holbrook site

20 JANUARY 2009 16:00

Judge Andrew smith today announced his findings on the Bank's historic terms & conditions (T&Cs) in the matter of the high Court Test Case.

Although he was happy to give the majority of the banks pronouncemet they had requested on the ability of charges to be tested as a penalty NatWest failed to obtain the all encompassing statement they had hoped for and the Judge stated that he was not prepared to make any such statement regarding the NatWest T&Cs from 2001 but was prepared to make a declarationon July 2003 leaflet and T&C 2004.

This is a small piece of a big puzzle but to bank charge claimants it is gold dust.

More here later.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[Michael Browne]

Full judgement here:
http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/per...-judgment3.pdf

[car2403]

The FSA waiver on complaints expires on 26th January

	FSA Waiver The FSA has granted a waiver to the finance industry in respect of bank charges claims. The waiver has been in place since July 2007 and will continue until the OFT test case is decided. The OFT test case will be heard by the House of Lords in June 2009. We are likley to get a decision before the end of the year. Under FSA rules, banks must normally deal with all complaints within 8 weeks. The FSA waiver has allowed banks to put bank charges claims on hold pending the outcome of the Test case. The FSA waiver is expremely one-sided as it allows banks to put claims on hold but it allows banks to continue levying charges. It also allows banks to continue enforcement action even in relation to disputed bank charges. The FSA waiver has been assisted by a general stay on charges-related County Court claims. You are still permitted to begin a County Court claim for the refund of your charges but your claim will be put on hold pending the outcome of the OFT test case. Despite this, we recommend very strongly that you begin a County Court claim now!! If you are on benefits, you will not have to pay court fees. You should start a County Court claim to recover your money straightaway.

[thelightbrigade]

So what is the current situation? I had my Barclays case stayed ages ago, are we any closer to a resolution? could do with the cash!!

[noomill060]

we all could!

hang fire- this aint gonna be sorted till next year.

[Stornoway]

Noomill

I was kinda hoping for a resolution by the autumn - what makes you think it will be next year ?

Also can anyone tel me what comes next - it all seems to have gone very quiet.

Thanks

[InformedSearcher]

Originally Posted by car2403

The FSA waiver on complaints expires on 26th January

LOL .... should we poor ones take side bets on if it'll be extended again? Maybe not eh?
Michael

[noomill060]

This will go to the House of Lords, no matter who wins.

Thats going to take many more months to sort out.

[Chromatix]

I've read the judgement very carefully just now. Since it is only ten pages, that was fortunately not too difficult!

The decision actually hinges upon whether or not the "leaflets" containing "terms and conditions" actually form part of the contract between the bank and the customer. In most cases they did not.

In which case, where *are* the contractual terms to which the customer and bank are subject in their business relationship? I don't seem to have been given any.

In the two cases where the decision was that the terms in the leaflet *did* apply to the contract, the precise terms considered in one of them was inappropriately specific. This is the OFT's fault - Mr. Justice Smith is not able to "show initiative" in this kind of case.

As such, he has not actually answered any substantive questions as far as we consumers are concerned. Instead, he has raised new questions. However, these new questions may turn out to be useful.

Here's a new avenue to consider: Ask the bank to clarify which *contractual* terms apply to the account, and to point out under which of them it was entitled to charge the fees.

[barry_2008]

The banks would say anything that relates to a charge is a fee for a service and our charges are clearly displayed in our leaflets. At least thats what abbey lloyds hsbc and northern rock are cean to point out.

[barry_2008]

what constitutes as a term ive done this before a judge nd he said wait until blah de blah

[Chromatix]

Originally Posted by barry_2008

The banks would say anything that relates to a charge is a fee for a service and our charges are clearly displayed in our leaflets. At least thats what abbey lloyds hsbc and northern rock are cean to point out.

Yes, that is what they have been doing in the past. But Mr. Justice Smith has now given us a very big lever to suggest that the leaflets are not, in fact, sufficient to show that a contractual obligation exists.

By levying these charges, the banks are, by default, asserting that they have a contractual right to do so. What I'm suggesting is that we make them prove that contractual right by showing us the terms.

[barry_2008]

the banks say they have a right under the terms and conditions you agreed to when you signed an aplication when you opened an account.

try asking them for a copy of the aplication form.

[barry_2008]

Firstly i'd like to say La illah illa-Allah

This judge has done a good thing by replying to every term which means each and every tocs hae to be commented on seperatley.

He answerd the issue of common law however it raises a question who is in breach us or them?

Them with there QC's? or us with our web interface? and N1 Forms

The judge has ruled yet there are asnwers I asked the test case did not cover.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[SPROUTY]

Just Heard

FSA WAIVER EXTENDED ANOTHER 6 MONTHS

	FSA Waiver The FSA has granted a waiver to the finance industry in respect of bank charges claims. The waiver has been in place since July 2007 and will continue until the OFT test case is decided. The OFT test case will be heard by the House of Lords in June 2009. We are likley to get a decision before the end of the year. Under FSA rules, banks must normally deal with all complaints within 8 weeks. The FSA waiver has allowed banks to put bank charges claims on hold pending the outcome of the Test case. The FSA waiver is expremely one-sided as it allows banks to put claims on hold but it allows banks to continue levying charges. It also allows banks to continue enforcement action even in relation to disputed bank charges. The FSA waiver has been assisted by a general stay on charges-related County Court claims. You are still permitted to begin a County Court claim for the refund of your charges but your claim will be put on hold pending the outcome of the OFT test case. Despite this, we recommend very strongly that you begin a County Court claim now!! If you are on benefits, you will not have to pay court fees. You should start a County Court claim to recover your money straightaway.