OFT v Banks - **House of Lords Appeal 23rd June 2009**

[rdm2006]

rbs

[fergal71]

me too for friends from barclays, only 50% so far rhough its a start

[brown1950]

Extract from the OFT website :-

Personal current accounts - UTCCRs investigation and test case

The personal current accounts market study provides the context for the OFT's Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (UTCCRs) investigation into the fairness of the level and application of unarranged overdraft charges.
The High Court test case, which is a key part of the investigation, is seeking to establish the preliminary legal principle of whether the provisions of the UTCCRs that deal with unfairness apply. It is also addressing the additional point of law of whether the charges can amount to penalties at common law.

Below is a timeline of this work.
5 December 2008

There will be a hearing at the High Court at 09:30 on 9 December to deal with further submissions from Abbey, Lloyds and RBSG relating to whether some of their historical charging terms are capable of amounting to penalties at common law.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[SPROUTY]

Re Today in Court

Interesting that RBS have more representations to make to the Judge and are the last ones left in the court.

This is a big IF but wern't they the Bank who the BBC said had prepared a division to pay back charges I wonder???

Maybe they are the odd one out who's charges CAN be tested as a penalty?

Just a thought!

[noomill060]

RBS is nationalised and seem to be dancing to a different tune these days.

Just a thought.

[car2403]

Originally Posted by SPROUTY

Re Today in Court

Interesting that RBS have more representations to make to the Judge and are the last ones left in the court.

This is a big IF but wern't they the Bank who the BBC said had prepared a division to pay back charges I wonder???

Maybe they are the odd one out who's charges CAN be tested as a penalty?

Just a thought!

Wasn't this HBOS?

[elsinore]

RBS

RBS plans 'proactive' refund of overdraft fees

Els

[SPROUTY]

Well we will know before christmas (judges work load permitting) Could be a very happy Crimbo for NatWest (RBS) clients if their charges can be "tested" as penalties.

The "proactive" staff may be busy elves!

[noomill060]

Satan's little helpers?

[adarling2006]

HBOS did something which i thought is odd, I have been offered half the charges complaint i have on hold with them, £1,132.54 is what i've been offered. Point being there could be a mass flood of these offers going out because of the hearing on the 9th.

[noomill060]

I see a pattern forming....

Offering everyone half what they're claiming, in anticipation of saving a few shillings when an announcement is made.

Methinks they know something...

[ohoh4312]

I wish!?!

No movement on the Abbey front - my hardship claim was refused delivery, not even refused consideration.

£3-4K would be a fantastic crimbo pressie.................

Here's hoping!

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[african_igbo]

Hi All... seems a bit better... anyway I just got made redundant like many others a few weeks back.. thus Is there a good thread and am I able to try my hand at hardship.... etc etc..Anyone had any contact with Barclays.... in regards to offering payments prior to antisapation of saving a few schillings...

	What are your rights at work Follow this link to read the review of the Guide to your Rights at work, published by Lawpack

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[adarling2006]

here's hoping for a full refund if they know something, can't fight us for long if the rules are on our side.

[tawnyowl]

Sounding hopefull all this.Departments possibly been set up to pay back these unjust charges.Surely this is the right and justfull thing to be doing.Just thinking how this all began with i believe one person taking the banks on and asking for their charges back.Of cause the banks have had to be forced into what hopefully will be the right result for their customers.But they sure have caused a lot of bad feeling and if the decision goes the right way will need keeping a eye on as they no doubt will be looking out for other ways to recoup the payout and will take some time to be trusted again.But at least will keep some of the bankworkers in jobs setting up the systems to cope with it all.So thankyou win or not to that one person who started it all.My view only Tawnyowl.

[yourbank]

Tawnyowl, there is not one bank I know that has not already got systems in place, in advance of the decision because it is stipulated in the FSA Waiver, point 15

"to the extent that sums are ultimately to be paid to complainants in respect of relevant charges complaints that have been stayed, the firm must include in these sums an element of compensation in respect of interest charged to or lost by the customer as a result of being out of money during the stay period;"
The stay period relates to the first FSA Waiver from July 2007

	FSA Waiver The FSA has granted a waiver to the finance industry in respect of bank charges claims. The waiver has been in place since July 2007 and will continue until the OFT test case is decided. The OFT test case will be heard by the House of Lords in June 2009. We are likley to get a decision before the end of the year. Under FSA rules, banks must normally deal with all complaints within 8 weeks. The FSA waiver has allowed banks to put bank charges claims on hold pending the outcome of the Test case. The FSA waiver is expremely one-sided as it allows banks to put claims on hold but it allows banks to continue levying charges. It also allows banks to continue enforcement action even in relation to disputed bank charges. The FSA waiver has been assisted by a general stay on charges-related County Court claims. You are still permitted to begin a County Court claim for the refund of your charges but your claim will be put on hold pending the outcome of the OFT test case. Despite this, we recommend very strongly that you begin a County Court claim now!! If you are on benefits, you will not have to pay court fees. You should start a County Court claim to recover your money straightaway.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[tawnyowl]

Originally Posted by yourbank

Tawnyowl, there is not one bank I know that has not already got systems in place, in advance of the decision because it is stipulated in the FSA Waiver, point 15

"to the extent that sums are ultimately to be paid to complainants in respect of relevant charges complaints that have been stayed, the firm must include in these sums an element of compensation in respect of interest charged to or lost by the customer as a result of being out of money during the stay period;"
The stay period relates to the first FSA Waiver from July 2007

Thankyou for clearing this point up with me-i try to understand things but miss many points.So because of the waiver as i understand it i can still go back to July 2001 when claiming charges back or trying to.Thankyou.
A verdict on the banks' appeal is expected before the end of the year. However, final resolution of the case is unlikely before the end of next year. As long as the waiver is in place, consumers can claim for refunds on charges dating back to July 2001.

	FSA Waiver The FSA has granted a waiver to the finance industry in respect of bank charges claims. The waiver has been in place since July 2007 and will continue until the OFT test case is decided. The OFT test case will be heard by the House of Lords in June 2009. We are likley to get a decision before the end of the year. Under FSA rules, banks must normally deal with all complaints within 8 weeks. The FSA waiver has allowed banks to put bank charges claims on hold pending the outcome of the Test case. The FSA waiver is expremely one-sided as it allows banks to put claims on hold but it allows banks to continue levying charges. It also allows banks to continue enforcement action even in relation to disputed bank charges. The FSA waiver has been assisted by a general stay on charges-related County Court claims. You are still permitted to begin a County Court claim for the refund of your charges but your claim will be put on hold pending the outcome of the OFT test case. Despite this, we recommend very strongly that you begin a County Court claim now!! If you are on benefits, you will not have to pay court fees. You should start a County Court claim to recover your money straightaway.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[yourbank]

That is the way I read the FSA waiver.

	FSA Waiver The FSA has granted a waiver to the finance industry in respect of bank charges claims. The waiver has been in place since July 2007 and will continue until the OFT test case is decided. The OFT test case will be heard by the House of Lords in June 2009. We are likley to get a decision before the end of the year. Under FSA rules, banks must normally deal with all complaints within 8 weeks. The FSA waiver has allowed banks to put bank charges claims on hold pending the outcome of the Test case. The FSA waiver is expremely one-sided as it allows banks to put claims on hold but it allows banks to continue levying charges. It also allows banks to continue enforcement action even in relation to disputed bank charges. The FSA waiver has been assisted by a general stay on charges-related County Court claims. You are still permitted to begin a County Court claim for the refund of your charges but your claim will be put on hold pending the outcome of the OFT test case. Despite this, we recommend very strongly that you begin a County Court claim now!! If you are on benefits, you will not have to pay court fees. You should start a County Court claim to recover your money straightaway.

[JOSH_IOU]

You have to push youre bank to get them to settle out of court.

I find the court option easier.

Did I mention i liked the lass at the court desk?

[Michael Browne]

Did I mention i liked the lass at the court desk?

I bet that's a comfort to her