The OFT Case

[rdm2006]

do we have an update on what is happening???

[Azazal23]

What happens if the case flops, not that i am being negative or nothing the lets face it the banks are protected from up high. Given the economic uncertanty at the moment i cant see this having a postitive outcome for joe public.

Just just to clarify, if it does fail does every case get thrown out automatically. Or if we do win, does every defence get struck out automatically?

When is a decision expected?

[Bookworm]

Decision is not expected until May.

Both sides are pretty much expected to appeal whichever loses, in which case it is unlikely to be a final decision until what? End 2009 if we're lucky?

It's not as simple as every case/defence gets thrown out automatically, no. For starters, this case hinges on the UTCCR, so any case which has used common law as well as/instead of the UTCCR (business claims for example, where the UTCCR do not apply) would in theory not be relying on the test case decision. However, the banks having also asked the judge for a declaration that the charges are not penalties, THAT part is very relevant to most cases as once a precedent is set, the County Court judges will then have something to decide there and then which way to go. How each court decides to then handle the bulk of their stayed cases is up to them, some will still favour the individual handling, some which used blanket decisions before no doubt will do the same again.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	FSA Waiver The FSA has granted a waiver to the finance industry in respect of bank charges claims. The waiver has been in place since July 2007 and will continue until the OFT test case is decided. The OFT test case will be heard by the House of Lords in June 2009. We are likley to get a decision before the end of the year. Under FSA rules, banks must normally deal with all complaints within 8 weeks. The FSA waiver has allowed banks to put bank charges claims on hold pending the outcome of the Test case. The FSA waiver is expremely one-sided as it allows banks to put claims on hold but it allows banks to continue levying charges. It also allows banks to continue enforcement action even in relation to disputed bank charges. The FSA waiver has been assisted by a general stay on charges-related County Court claims. You are still permitted to begin a County Court claim for the refund of your charges but your claim will be put on hold pending the outcome of the OFT test case. Despite this, we recommend very strongly that you begin a County Court claim now!! If you are on benefits, you will not have to pay court fees. You should start a County Court claim to recover your money straightaway.

[Jamesx81x]

Hi

If the banks do lose and they appeal which of course they will do does this allow everyone to claim back their charges in the meantime?

If a prisoner gets sent down he can appeal but remains in prison until his appeal is heard, would be along the same lines wouldnt it?

[Bookworm]

It is unlikely that the courts will allow any case to proceed until all appeals have been heard and dealt with.

[rdm2006]

Thank you bookie nice to see your still here Old Faithful

Shame they are not as quick to jump on the backs of banks as they are with mobile phones (news earlier tonight).

Not that mobile company's shouldn't be jumped on

[fergal71]

what news about mobile phones?????

[dave]

t is unlikely that the courts will allow any case to proceed until all appeals have been heard and dealt with.

MR JUSTICE ANDREW SMITH: It might even be that if the residue is very small, or a particularly unusual account, one would say that that would best be dealt with in the county court in light of the guidance. But even in cases I would hope that my judgment will, subject to appeal, provide the guidance.

I would say that that means 'unlikely'.

[rdm2006]

Originally Posted by fergal71

what news about mobile phones?????

There was something on the 6 O'Clock news about mobile contracts i heard the highlights but missed the actual article sorry

[dave]

I think it may be this: BBC NEWS | Business | Q&A: Mobile mis-selling

Like trolls, it seems that the mobile phone companies don't know how to engage in polite converstation either!

[Mr Rhodes]

Can somebody who knows for sure please post a concise and up to date status please?

Thanks in advance

[Gez]

Sure..
The case has been heard and we're waiting for judgement which is expected around July, after which, the losing side is expected to appeal. What happens after that & how long the whole thing will drag on further is anybody's guess.

On a side note, someone today received a letter from the court stating that her claim will remain stayed until the outcome of judgement & subsequent appeals so I guess we can expect cases to be stayed for a long time yet..

[kennythecelt]

Originally Posted by Bookworm

Decision is not expected until May.

Both sides are pretty much expected to appeal whichever loses, in which case it is unlikely to be a final decision until what? End 2009 if we're lucky?

It's not as simple as every case/defence gets thrown out automatically, no. For starters, this case hinges on the UTCCR, so any case which has used common law as well as/instead of the UTCCR (business claims for example, where the UTCCR do not apply) would in theory not be relying on the test case decision. However, the banks having also asked the judge for a declaration that the charges are not penalties, THAT part is very relevant to most cases as once a precedent is set, the County Court judges will then have something to decide there and then which way to go. How each court decides to then handle the bulk of their stayed cases is up to them, some will still favour the individual handling, some which used blanket decisions before no doubt will do the same again.

Hi Mr Rhodes
Assuming you mean bank charges and not mobile phones as this thread is about the OFT case, I would refer you to an earlier post of bookie's. All the mods and site admin and helpers can be relied upon to provide up to date information.
The situation won't change until May at latest.
Hope this is helpful.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[kennythecelt]

Sorry Gez, my post took a while to get through. Cheers, Kenny!!

[Mr Rhodes]

Thanks for the concise update.

It looks like it will be a long wait either way. On the upside the interest is still accruing? Surely the banks will be aware of accruing interest on these claims?

Just like their illegal and unfair charges, it will all add up to a vast sum!

Are we being taken for a ride here?

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[kennythecelt]

You might well say that Mr Rhodes, but I couldn't possibly comment!

[HSBCrusher]

another £150 in charges for me in the past 6 weeks or so from Barclays.

[Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Mr Rhodes

On the upside the interest is still accruing?

Yes.

Surely the banks will be aware of accruing interest on these claims?

Oh yes.

Just like their illegal and unfair charges, it will all add up to a vast sum!

Yes and no. a) The 8% allowed by the Courts is considerably less than the round 30% unauthorised o/d interest they charge, which most people won't know or can't be bothered to reclaim, b) For the people who haven't filed their claims at court, the clock is still ticking on the 6 years limit and so many charges will no doubt be falling by the wayside, c)the interest they are making on the money they are not having to repay at the moment and lending it at higher interest instead should more than cover the interest they will have eventually to pay... If they lose, that is, because of course, they are probably hoping that they will win, in which case, the whole interest question becomes a very moot one anyway.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[The Phantom]

I have held back with a claim against HSBC for just under £1000.- (accrued in less than a year) but will file it with my local court next week when I get paid, I will take a gamble that the banks will eventually LOOSE this and if the appeals drag on until next year a nice amount of interest should have built up.
I am not usually a gambler, but will take the plunge with this one.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[kennythecelt]

Yes Phantom, it's a personal decision, but, for what its worth, I would do it myself.

They are still unlawful charges and all the banks paid out trying to prevent a case going to court.

Best of luck and kind regards, Kenny


PS love the avatar, one of my favourite classics!!