The OFT Case

[determindator]

As I have a current case which is not stayed I want to share what happened when I was in Court. The Bank's solicitors told me they were going to accept my defence figure before going into Court. All I can say is if I could go back I would have put the full amount I wanted to get back being the amount of charges, plus interest as the figure in the defence. The Judge explained the defence figure is crucial and seen as absolute. Although I would like to expand I won't at present as it is still on going.

My thought on this is even though time is passing the figure you submit to Court stays the same, and you miss out on interest being charged to the Bank.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[car2403]

Originally Posted by determindator

My thought on this is even though time is passing the figure you submit to Court stays the same, and you miss out on interest being charged to the Bank.

Unless your claiming contractrual interest at the same rate, in which case the Bank is missing out due to compound.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[johnnymitch]

If a case goes into court, there must surely be some mechanism for the court to take cognisance of the s69 Interest of 8% which has accrued during the waiting period ?

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[car2403]

Originally Posted by johnnymitch

If a case goes into court, there must surely be some mechanism for the court to take cognisance of the s69 Interest of 8% which has accrued during the waiting period ?

Only if it's claimed on the original claim form.

8% interest is significantly lower than contract interest of up to 30% though.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[elsinore]

Originally Posted by car2403

8% interest is significantly lower than contract interest of up to 30% though.

But still better than a poke in the face with a sharp stick.

I have an outstanding claim for which the accrued interest at 8% presently stands at £2794.22.

Els

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[photoman]

Originally Posted by determindator

As I have a current case which is not stayed I want to share what happened when I was in Court. The Bank's solicitors told me they were going to accept my defence figure before going into Court. All I can say is if I could go back I would have put the full amount I wanted to get back being the amount of charges, plus interest as the figure in the defence. The Judge explained the defence figure is crucial and seen as absolute. Although I would like to expand I won't at present as it is still on going.

My thought on this is even though time is passing the figure you submit to Court stays the same, and you miss out on interest being charged to the Bank.

If you are talking about the interest they have continued to charge upon your account due to the charges, then yes you may be in a position whereby interest has continued to accrue upon the account since submitting your claim.
However, once you get a court date through you should be able to apply for an amendment to your claim using an N244 to have the figure revised upto the date of the judgement.
As for S69 interest upon the whole sum, then I presume you used a standard CAG POC which stated that such should also be calculated by the court upto the date of settlement? So you should not lose out there either.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[johnnymitch]

As for S69 interest upon the whole sum, then I presume you used a standard CAG POC which stated that such should also be calculated by the court upto the date of settlement? So you should not lose out there either.

That was the scenario I was thinking of photoman - thanks

[Shuff]

I'm quite happy with the case stayed as long was we win. I'm getting a better rate of interest than what barclays could offer if I put my reclaimed money in one of there savings account.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[campari2]

Hi - I've been snowed under with DCA etc but....is the OFT case not now hearing this December??? My claim for approx £2k made to HSBC was bundled up into a new loan to include the penalties, and overdraft and an existing loan. This is all now higher rate and I think I must be paying interest on interest - if you see what I mean. We are also fighting a repo action so I dont think they should have forced us into this route and I'm worried that they made my claim disappear somehow, any thoughts - thanks.

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[SPROUTY]

Re: Shuffs comment above "a better rate of interest":

And (although the expected court result isnt written in stone) its probably safer than being deposited in Icelandic Bank.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[SPROUTY]

Originally Posted by campari2

Hi - I've been snowed under with DCA etc but....is the OFT case not now hearing this December??? My claim for approx £2k made to HSBC was bundled up into a new loan to include the penalties, and overdraft and an existing loan. This is all now higher rate and I think I must be paying interest on interest - if you see what I mean. We are also fighting a repo action so I dont think they should have forced us into this route and I'm worried that they made my claim disappear somehow, any thoughts - thanks.

You will have a pretty water tight case for claiming the interest on the loan, once it gets to court as you would not have needed to borrow the money (pertaining to the amount of charges plus actual interest charged on those charges) had they not applied "in error" charges that were not enfoceable under UTCCR (assuming the OFT get that ruling).

The Judges are currently considering their findings in the bank's appeal against the Judgment that the bank charges can be tested under UTCCR. Fingures crossed.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[determindator]

Thank you all for your thoughts and comments which I will digest and come back on.

Termi

[madjj111]

ive been outa touch for a while with the oft case - im waiting on a few thousand - can anyone advise me whats happening at mo - mortgage in arrears etc , money prob gettin on top of me

[johnnymitch]

You're on the right thread madjj 111 - it's just a case of sorting out the wheat from the chaff ......... read a few posts- it'll filter through ....

[fergal71]

madjj search for hardship cases you may still be able to claim... check also fsa website... goodluck

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[TheyrCriminals]

Hi Guys,

Sorry to post this here. But I have asked before and haven't had a response. I have a friend who is claiming on a business account with NatWest. I am fully aware of the business claims situation as regards the test case. However I have been told that in some circumstances some Claimants have recovered charges beyond the 6 year limitation period. I understand it is something to do with concealement, which is detailed in the Staute of Limitations (1980). Can anyone please advise, at least to get the ball rolling with this. His business claim is currently stayed in the County Court.

Many thanks,

TheyrCriminals

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[Aequitas]

Originally Posted by kennythecelt

They are still unlawful charges

Who says? No court has said so yet.

Originally Posted by kennythecelt

and all the banks paid out trying to prevent a case going to court.

That proves nothing except that all the banks paid out trying to prevent a case going to court.

[shakespeare62]

Dont forget to be aware of DCA 'snoopers' on this site. It may be obvious who they are.

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09

[MARTIN3030]

Originally Posted by TheyrCriminals

Hi Guys,

Sorry to post this here. But I have asked before and haven't had a response. I have a friend who is claiming on a business account with NatWest. I am fully aware of the business claims situation as regards the test case. However I have been told that in some circumstances some Claimants have recovered charges beyond the 6 year limitation period. I understand it is something to do with concealement, which is detailed in the Staute of Limitations (1980). Can anyone please advise, at least to get the ball rolling with this. His business claim is currently stayed in the County Court.

Many thanks,

TheyrCriminals

Yes this is true.
My own business claim with Barclays is using this arguement.
Basically it is section 32 c
That you were mistaken by paying the charges-being oblivious of the fact that they were unlawful until reports in the media.
The problem is that theres been rulings on the Common law elements which was the main points of the claim.

In my case,The claim was stayed,after Barclays telling the Court that the decision was expected.
However I successfully argued that the stay should be lifted to first deal with the limitation issue.
Barclays venemously objected-but was not granted their wish.So case listed for Limitation arguement in January.
This is an excellent way around the stay,and allow it to proceed,in the hope that the bank will not be able to properly defend limitation.
There is a 14 day skeleton exchange before the hearing.
It will be very interesting to see what Barclays come up with.
I am aware of 4 cases and in all of them the defence have paid up when forced to defend limitation on sec 32c

I suggest you read more in the Business forums.

	County Court guidebook by Judge Patricia Pearl Follow this link to read the review of this excellent Small Claims Guidebook. This comprehensive and very accessible guide will take you through the process of suing or defending a claim. This guide will help you take control of your litigation and make you more confident about doing it yourself. Applies to England and Wales

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[Aequitas]

Originally Posted by shakespeare62

Dont forget to be aware of DCA 'snoopers' on this site. It may be obvious who they are.

What signs do you see that suggest to you that they are snooping?

Why do you think the DCA are snooping on this site?

If they are, why do we need to remember be aware of them?

What points are we too look for that can help us recognise DCA snoopers?

	Debt collection library Follow this link to our debt collection library. This library contains templates and advice for dealing with debt collectors who act oppressively or unfairly. This library is work in progress and will be built up over the next few weeks. 17.03.09