The HPV Vaccine - is it a good idea ?

[PriorityOne]

I do care about what you've said.... but my position remains unchanged. This is a relatively new vaccine, don't forget.

Look upon it as a cop out if you wish.... or you having the last word, if you prefer .... but I have no more to add at this point.

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by My Real Name

that's a cop out.

It's not a cop out, you are trying to 'force' your views (and maybe beliefs) onto someone and that is not right.

[PriorityOne]

Originally Posted by Conniff

It's not a cop out, you are trying to 'force' your views (and maybe beliefs) onto someone and that is not right.

Thank you....

[My Real Name]

Originally Posted by Conniff

It's not a cop out, you are trying to 'force' your views (and maybe beliefs) onto someone and that is not right.

I have been stating the facts, and challenging a flawed viewpoint, no more, no less.

[Conniff]

Because the viewpoint isn't the same as yours, that doesn't make it inherantly flawed. People reject all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons, but that don't make them wrong.

If I was in the position I would 'recommend' to my kids that they have it, but I wouldn't keep arguing the point. You have made a good case and now it is up to P1 (in agreement with her daughter) to come to a decision that is right for them.

[My Real Name]

Originally Posted by Conniff

Because the viewpoint isn't the same as yours, that doesn't make it inherantly flawed. People reject all sorts of things for all sorts of reasons, but that don't make them wrong.

I quite agree. Every day I interact with people that hold widely differing viewpoints to me. Holding a opinion is never wrong or inherently flawed, per se. Basing that opinion on flawed assumptions, ignoring evidence to the contrary and failing to address a core disparity in their reasoning, however, makes it inherently flawed.

Originally Posted by Conniff

If I was in the position I would 'recommend' to my kids that they have it, but I wouldn't keep arguing the point. You have made a good case and now it is up to P1 (in agreement with her daughter) to come to a decision that is right for them.

Again, I quite agree, and I would never dream of coming between a person and what they feel is right for them. However, fortunately or unfortunately, my personal principles and values mean that I am not prepared to gloss over glaring misrepresentations without reason.

[PriorityOne]

Originally Posted by My Real Name

I quite agree. Every day I interact with people that hold widely differing viewpoints to me. Holding a opinion is never wrong or inherently, per se. Basing that opinion on flawed assumptions, ignoring evidence to the contrary and failing to address a core disparity in their reasoning, however, makes it inherently flawed.

Again, I quite agree, and I would never dream of coming between a person and what they feel is right for them. However, fortunately or unfortunately, my personal principles and values mean that I am not prepared to gloss over glaring misrepresentations without reason.

In your opinion....

There are many examples of people throughout history who have behaved precisely in the way you describe.... and received a similar response to the one you've delivered on here, only to be proved right months/years later.

The medical profession do not know everything.... and seeing as we now live in a diagnosis culture, particularly where kids are concerned (slightly of topic here), I will continue to question everything until satisfied that what my child is being offered is the right way forward.... and can be trusted to do what it claims.

[My Real Name]

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

In your opinion....

It is not opinion, it is self evident fact. Where I have expressed opinion, I have at least seen fit to qualify, back up and stand by it. As opposed to your opinion, which you have still not seen fit to back up, in spite of a direct question that would validate it.

Just so that there is no confusion as to what that question is - What level of effective protection would you consider to be worthwhile?

It's an easy question. I do not understand your reluctance to answer it, I can only infer that you are too rude to address it.

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

There are many examples of people throughout history who have behaved precisely in the way you describe.... and received a similar response to the one you've delivered on here, only to be proved right months/years later.

Such as? Such a statement is basless posturing, unless you are prepared to back it up.

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

The medical profession do not know everything....

No, they don't. But their best practice is based on sound principles of evidence and testing, not wishy washy gut feelings.

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

and seeing as we now live in a diagnosis culture, particularly where kids are concerned (slightly of topic here), .

Diagnosis, as opposed to what? Fairy dust and tea leaves?

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

I will continue to question everything until satisfied that what my child is being offered is the right way forward.... and can be trusted to do what it claims.

Which is why I asked you a lifetime ago - What evidence are you waiting for?

[PriorityOne]

You seem upset....

I've no idea who you are or what authority you claim to have.... but it's getting really boring now.

If you need me to give you examples of medical negligence, then I suggest you read more....

You seem to be baiting for a row...

Strange.

[My Real Name]

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

You seem upset....

Infer what you will. I am entirely calm and operating with reason.

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

I've no idea who you are or what authority you claim to have....

I do not claim any authority whatsoever. The substance of everything I state stands by itself.

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

but it's getting really boring now.

You're telling me. I feel that I have indulged you almost too much, and have proffered more than ample opportunity to validate what you have said.

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

If you need me to give you examples of medical negligence, then I suggest you read more....

What possible relevance does that have?

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

You seem to be baiting for a row...

Strange.

Not at all - If I'm asked a question, I will answer a question. But I will not pander to stupidity.

[Edit]

I certainly have nothing further to add. I have answered your original question with good intention, and informed you of the ramifications of your decision.

You don't appear willing to engage any further in anything other than obtuse hypocrisy, so let's leave it at that.

[patdavies]

As somebody who cares little either way on this subject (not being the parent of a girl in the relevant age range), I have to say that even to me, My Real Name's postings come across as arrogant, hectoring and bullying. He/she has references to back-up his/her claims but seem unable to accept any other viewpoint might be at all valid.

In all of this professional and statistical advice, and accepting that legislation has changed, let us not forget how strongly the medical profession once recommended thalidomide.

Lastly, for the parent of the girl who was vaccinated despite consent being explicitly refused; this act is legally an assault (technically, I think that it is GBH as the skin was punctured) and is therefore a Police matter.

[My Real Name]

Originally Posted by patdavies

As somebody who cares little either way on this subject (not being the parent of a girl in the relevant age range), I have to say that even to me, My Real Name's postings come across as arrogant, hectoring and bullying. He/she has references to back-up his/her claims but seem unable to accept any other viewpoint might be at all valid.

I'm trying, and have consistently tried, to understand and accept PriorityOne's viewpoint, to the point of all but explicitly stating "answer this question, as it will help me understand your viewpoint". Anything else is a response to criticism aimed at me, not at the content of my posts - Would you counsel the others in this thread to continue to attack me, as a person, as opposed to the content of what I write?

Your view may be that my posting is arrogant, hectoring and bullying. I fear that if I were to offer my opinion of others' posting styles, it would be entirely misonstrued, and risk being deleted by a moderator. But neither would I base my argument on my perception of the person.

All I ask is that people address the facts, not their inferences.

In all of this professional and statistical advice, and accepting that legislation has changed, let us not forget how strongly the medical profession once recommended thalidomide.

Absolutely. And it led to far tighter controls as to how pharmaceuticals are researched and tested. Was it "strongly recommended" though? I'm not sure you can make that claim. Was its use widerspread and the side effects tragic? Yes.

Lastly, for the parent of the girl who was vaccinated despite consent being explicitly refused; this act is legally an assault (technically, I think that it is GBH as the skin was punctured) and is therefore a Police matter.

I agree. The apparent disregard of the parent's views, and the apparent disregard of the child's wishes goes very much against the grain, and ought to be dealt with and investigated appropriately. But as a separate issue.

[Edit]

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

Fantastic... finally !....

A reply entirely commensurate with your previous posts.

[PriorityOne]

Originally Posted by My Real Name

I certainly have nothing further to add.

Fantastic... finally !....