Doctor or Hospital Negligence?

[AceDaz]

Hi All

My partner had been going to the doctors since March 2007 with pains in her back. They continually gave her pain killers to ease the pain, but did nothing else.

Towards September / October time the doctor eventually sent her for a back x-ray at the local hospital which resulted in nothing showing up.

The doctor then sent her for physiotherapy, which she only lasted 1 session because the physio said it was nothing to do with her back.

At the end of November, her back played up as it usually did but it didn't go away after a few days. In fact it got worse.

On the Sunday I took her to A&E, as it got unbareable. This is a person that has had two C-Sections and DIDNT have ANY pain killers at all, so I knew something was up as she has a VERY high pain threshold and was crying with the pain.

A&E did a x-ray on her front and diagnosed a blockage and so administered the usual enimas etc which didn't work. They then sent her home, still in pain, with laxatives etc.

By Tuesday, the doctor was called out as she was still in pain and she said she felt something "pop" inside her. A nurse came out, and after consulting with a doctor she was sent back to A&E.

On the Tuesday night, she was AGAIN diagnosed with a blockage and was told that she would be admitted to "flush it out".

On the Wednesday afternoon, she was sent for a Scan. By Thursday night she was in for a emergency operation.

It turned out to be a cyst the size of a 9 month baby, which would take her back to March from when she started having pains.


She then had about 3 months off work, still gets pain (she said its starting on her left side but is reluctant to go back to the doctors after last time) and not has a scar on her tummy which she feels awkward about.


Does anyone think we have a case for compensation? Does it have to be her that starts it or can I?

Cheers in advance!

Daz

[freddyb45]

You quite clearly have a case here. As the pain continued, the doctors should have done all the necessary scans required to check out every possible problem. You say they did an x-ray but it showed nothing, yet if she was still having pains, they should have considered other tests, like an ultrasound scan, which would have shown the cyst.
I'm quite horrified that A&E initially sent her home with just painkillers and laxatives (the latter probably made the situation worse).

I can only offer what information I know, so you are better consulting a solicitor for further assistance; but from what you've said, it certainly sounds like you have a decent case.

[forgottenone]

Does anyone think we have a case for compensation? Does it have to be her that starts it or can I?

Compensation ... just bare in mind it takes much needed finances off other parts of the NHS each time someone does this. Yes, it's upsetting, yes it's painful when this happens to you but there are other ways to go about getting an apology. That isn't meant to sound harsh, but each claim has to come from somewhere - and it comes from the purse of the of your local county health services not from some national fund for the NHS. Which means it gets taken off other vital services. Nowhere else.

And there are also other ways to stop this happening to dozens of others by making a stand. Yes, seek some advice, but also explore other avenues ... to get these errors within the system corrected, before they harm anyone else.

The NHS is seriously underbudgeted, grossly mismanaged and this is why the above things occur. People are not superhuman, particularly if they are overworked, doing the job of 3 at once; yes, it does happen in the NHS.

So, please, consider other options and advice from someone with medical knowledge and expertise in these fields. Because it will need specialist medical advice from someone who deals with medical cases. Please don't go to someone who just wants to be an ambulance chaser and sees '£££' in solicitors fees and see you and your problem as a commodity.

I wish you success with this and hope you get some redress for the situation you've been put through.

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

Originally Posted by forgottenone

. . . just bare in mind it takes much needed finances off other parts of the NHS each time someone does this. Yes, it's upsetting, yes it's painful when this happens to you but there are other ways to go about getting an apology. That isn't meant to sound harsh, but each claim has to come from somewhere - and it comes from the purse of the of your local county health services not from some national fund for the NHS. Which means it gets taken off other vital services. Nowhere else.

So in otherwords what you are saying is that people who are victims of medical negligence (and I'm not saying that the OP is one) should forego their right to compensation because the government in particular and society in general are failing to fund the health service in a way that meets the needs of the country.

It's outrageous!

I have more sympathy for the views that the NHS should cease to provide care for injuries or illness caused by smoking, dangerous sports, obesity and other self inflicted circumstances. (Not that I agree with that notion.)

Any properly managed organisation recognises that mistakes happen and provides for them.

Perhaps if the NHS was a bit quicker to recognise when a mistake has been made and own up, issues could be resolved quicker at lower cost with less going to lawyers and costs!

The issue is in the hands of the NHS not the poor victims!

[poppynurse]

Originally Posted by freddyb45

You quite clearly have a case here. As the pain continued, the doctors should have done all the necessary scans required to check out every possible problem. You say they did an x-ray but it showed nothing, yet if she was still having pains, they should have considered other tests, like an ultrasound scan, which would have shown the cyst.
I'm quite horrified that A&E initially sent her home with just painkillers and laxatives (the latter probably made the situation worse).

I can only offer what information I know, so you are better consulting a solicitor for further assistance; but from what you've said, it certainly sounds like you have a decent case.

I have to disagree freddy - there is no clear cut negligence can that I can see from the info supplied. The tests for clinical negligence are hard to prove and this case will depend on what a 'reasonable practitioner' would have done on the presenting symptoms and test results, and also if lasting harm was suffered as a direct result. Only a specialist medical negligence solicitor with access to the medical notes would be able to make a valid decision on if there is a case to answer.

Acedaz - only the affected party can instigate a claim if they are capable and have mental capacity. Have you thought about approaching PALS with your complaint so that you can find out the Trust's perspective on this matter?

[poppynurse]

Originally Posted by forgottenone

Compensation ... just bare in mind it takes much needed finances off other parts of the NHS each time someone does this. Yes, it's upsetting, yes it's painful when this happens to you but there are other ways to go about getting an apology. That isn't meant to sound harsh, but each claim has to come from somewhere - and it comes from the purse of the of your local county health services not from some national fund for the NHS. Which means it gets taken off other vital services. Nowhere else.

Actually any compensation comes from the Trust's insurers - the Clinical Negligence Scheme for Trusts - all trusts have this insurance to cover them and pay a yearly premium based on performance scores etc.

Although undoubtedly this money would be better spent on patient care, the NHS does recognise that mistakes do happen and this scheme allows compensation to be paid in genuine clinical negligence cases.

[Paul Heathcote]

"Actually any compensation comes from the Trust's insurers - the Clinical Negligence Scheme for Trusts - all trusts have this insurance to cover them and pay a yearly premium based on performance scores etc."

Actually, the compensation comes from the coffers of the NHS Litigation Authority who run the CNST, ELS etc. According to top med neg barrister Charles J Lewis the NHS LA uses 'hired guns' ie. experts who 'write to order' as expert witnesses to defend claims - even the 'genuine clinical negligence cases' Poppynurse refers to.

[janichblue]

My Daughter had a day case operation which then caused symptoms and actions very similar to your own experience. She finished up having an emergency operation for peretonitis after having been sent home, excruciating pains etc and told nothing wrong.

As already pointed out, the hardest part is obtaining 'hard evidence' and proving that it was actually negligence on the part of the NHS.

Providing you give all the details to a 'reputable' solicitors practice they will advise you of likely chance of success and if positive they will offer to take the case on. Our case was settled out of court after 4 years (6 figure sum). We were told all costs upfront, hardly anything, (£2-£3k for medicals) and the service was so professional it was obvious they were not ambulance chasers.

Do your research to find someone like this, do not go to the first solicitors you find in yellow pages!

I do not wish to now put a damper on things for you but having been through the full process on behalf of my Daughter you may find, on the basis of what you say here, that although you feel justified in obtaining compensation, and you possibly are, that getting monetary satisfaction would prove extremely difficult.

Certainly worth collating all of your evidence and getting legal opinion.

[matchstickman]

Does anyone think we have a case for compensation? Does it have to be her that starts it or can I?

You definately have a case for compensation here as this is the most blatant case of medical negligence I think I have ever read about...

My only advice would be to choose a specialist clinical negligence solicitor rather than a generic personal injury lawyer. Simply because they tend to know medical law in greater depth, including all the usual ways medical professionals try and dodge liability. There are plenty out there, and the link is just to illustrate that medical negligence is a specialist area of the legal profession.

As for who must start the claim, I believe it will have to be her but don't hold me to that.

Hope this helps and good luck with your claim....

[dietcola]

Hay there indeed the person who is claiming would have to action the claim, however yourself can act as their refferee if this is required... Cases such as this are often very hard and time consuming to win as many judges will not find against the NHS as the money they allocate you obviously cannot be spent in patient care.... I went through a hospital negligence case 4 years ago and i have still not been to court to hear a final verdict, nor has a date for this been confimed...

Looking back i would have accepted the pre court offer and i would have my money and peace of mind by now.... unless you are willing to leaise and chase solicitors i would reccomend you stay positive and hope for a great solicitor such as the ones above!

[raymy1954]

check out cancer missdiagnose 3years before they got it right

[Rowlshar]

Hi, i have had exactly the same happen to me. I was operated twice but the actual ins and outs are complicated. I went through the complaints procedure (hospital was useless and not helpful at all) and my complaint was upheld by the healthcare commission. Did you go through these? I have exactly the same pain too as your girlfriend on the same side!!!!! I went through pals who put me through to another organisation. They look at your complaint and tell you whether they think you have a case and actually reccomend solicitors so that you make a choice. How far have you got as i have only just accessed this site. It would be interesting to find out as im at the stage of finding a solicitor

[flyingdoc]

Those of you who say "YES YOU HAVE A DEFINATE CASE" are incredibly over simplifying. There are very few cases where there are definate cases of clinical negligence as the "bolam" criteria are used to assess claims.

Basically if there is a body of medical opinion that supports the actions taken by all the practitioners involved then there is no negligence.

I am not saying dont go for it, I am saying dont go steaming in with the opinion that you cannot lose.

DO contact a specialist solicitor in clinical negligence - dont go to a high street solicitor who claims to be an expert (as the owner of a claims company I know how many solicitors claim to be experts and are not)

If you can get a recommendataion from a friend/family member then do so.

If you decide to use a claims company (and I can/will not take cases from here so I cannot assist you directly) then ensure that they are registered with the Ministry of justice Claims Management Regulation.

Any solicitor should take a case on a CFA basis (formerly no win no fee) if any of them say they will need money to assess the case tell them no thanks and go elsewhere.

You can initiate enquiries with regards to the case but the case itself will have to be taken by the victim of the alleged negligence.

As already recommended I would talk to the PALS service at the hospital you attended, but be aware that it is not just the hospital that may be culpable here.

Also remember that there is a 3 year limit on your claim. So there is no real immediate rush, how about you get your partner well first and then consider the options.

[Rowlshar]

yes i agree totally but in my case, i went through all the appropriate channels with my complaint and ended up with the healthcare commission which upheld it. They also made good points in the letter which helped me in making a decision in making a claim. It was also the case that the consultant didnt apologise and actually stopped me having treatment that was also the deciding factor. I had to go internally to the chief exec to get another consultant pretty quickly!!!! so to your reply, i do say look into things thoroughly and give enough time to let your head do the work and not your heart as my heart would have him go through the exact same as i went through. It is a lengthy process and not all solicitors will take on these sort of cases so its a matter of looking into things quite doggedly. In my case, i kept a diary and every little bit of communication going so that i had back up to everything that was said and done etc as my case was complicated. I went through pals first and I am now in a positon to follow through. I am at the complicated part of finding somebody willing to help on a no win no fee basis. I have had a couple willing to take me on but then wanted a huge amount as 'insurance' so i plod on. It is extremelly difficult task so people have to have that in mind as well as the fact that it could get dirty.
Trouble is that when you are left in the air with a medical problem which was caused by a practitioner, it just makes you even more determined to seek justice. Too late now for sorry's. Heres where the hard work starts. Its not a route for everybody but when going down this way, you need to look objectively at whether you have a case. I would reccomend going to pals first to find out what to do when the complaint system has been exhausted at the hospital and go from there as they are unbiased

Sharon

[Sali]

Rowlshar

I'm trying to take it the fact that you found PALS unbiased in their advice - even useful! That is so contrary to the department found in my own local hospital.

Our hospitals seem to be run by managers and lawyers whose first response to any complaint is to say 'it wasn't our fault'. If I am to believe the recent Dispatches TV program, they have stripped healthcare staffing levels to the bare bones in order to gain Trust status and created a culture of fear amongst the workers against whistleblowing. Patients and their families are forced to go to the Ombudsman or take their own legal action, prolonging their distress and costing much time and (sometimes) substantial money.

My understanding from reading reports on the Staffordshire and Gosport cases recently is that the Ombudsman can force a hospital to award the patient (or their families) compensation.

We need a much slicker complaints system. At the moment the biggest winners are the lawyers.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[Rowlshar]

i do know what you mean as my hospital in question is Stafford. Thing is, i battled to get to the point i am at and really i think PALS knew i wont give up. I hate the fact i have to fight. My latest set back is that the Trust's so called audit of the surgeons work have come up with the fact that he has done nothing wrong. They went as far as to say they didnt know where the healthcare commission (in my case) got its info from and that he followed certain procedures (noted). Trouble is that the info they put in the report was inaccurate. And so i fight on. Loads of codwallop designed to make you give up or run out of steam but i wont. I will keep battling to make sure it doesnt happen to anybody else. I agree with the major healthcare report. Something drastic needs to happen to safeguard patients otherwise nothing changes! As for whistleblowing - 2 members of staff witnessed remarks and conversations which was said to me by registrars and denied it afterwards. If i could take these to court then i bloody would. How can patients get anywhere with consultants / registrars/ members of staff's treatment of them and change this culture when they lie to protect the staff doing all this. Not just in my case. I could go on and on! Through all the crap that is going on, if it wasnt for the chief exec's intervention then i would not have got the treatment i had. If you have got a mouth then i would say use it else you get nowhere in this world. I pity the people who cant as it shouldnt be this way. One thing though, PALS should not be in hospitals as how can they be independant?

[Sali]

Rowlshar

Your hospital is Stafford? I thought that was the one where the aggrieved patients and their families had launched the 'Cure the NHS' campaign.

I totally agree with you regarding fighting for justice. Believe me, I am in exactly the same position and I have no intention of giving up either. My case is not against Stafford, but it seems to me that the reports I read regarding the treatment of patients there are echoed in the case of my relative and probably to many others throughout the country. How long has it taken for the Stafford cases to come into the public domain? How many other patients have suffered in the interim?

Of every one person like us who does not give in, there are probably ten more who do. You and I have experienced the 'circle the wagons' mentality that is the NHS. There is no way the NHS will change for the better from within.

I note flyingdoc's comment

"Basically if there is a body of medical opinion that supports the actions taken by all the practitioners involved then there is no negligence."

I have no trust that my hospital's practitioners will remain objective when faced with a complaint. They are like muskateers, all for one and one for all!

I understand there will always be mistakes and complaints. It seems to me though that we are increasing the possibilities for error by the way the hospitals are run. My view is that we have too many hospital managers with too many government targets and not enough nurses and doctors. I was also left extremely unimpressed, to put it mildly, by the nurses and doctors who seem to have stopped thinking and asking questions and just 'caring.' I wonder whether this has anything to do with the way nursing training (don't know about the doctors) has changed from ward to classroom, or whether it is because so many staff are from overseas (I know the health service would crumble completely if they were not there). Perhaps it is just a reflection of their lack of time because they are understaffed.


.

[Sali]

Oh and Rowlshar, you talk about the hospital questioning where the Healthcare Commission got its information from. Had you already requested a copy of your medical records under the Data Protection Act prior to your complaint? If not, contact the HC Commission as soon as you can (I think it will be defunct soon) to see whether they obtained a copy. I only say this because I have seen posts suggesting notes being changed and lost by the hospital. If you do take your complaint further, you will need a copy of these notes.

[poppynurse]

I believe the HCC ceased being yesterday...hence the publication of a raft of reports in the last few weeks as they wound things up. I think the new body is the Care Quality Commission....