Medical Negligence

[orfoster]

Over the past 6 years my gfs mum has been bed bound.

In 2001 she was admitted to hospital and needed morphine, a junior doctor approached her to try and administer morphine through an intra venal catheter in her Superior Vena Cava, they couldn't get the catheter in and spent an hour trying, they eventually got this in, this caused great damage to the Superior Vena Cava so she now can't get out of bed because the fluid cannot get down the vein and if she gets up she falls.

The NHS Dr admitted he was very wrong in doing what he did and realises this but obviously this isn't on the record, we don't think!

They have tried stents and angioplasties but can't get the vein back to normal use, all attempts have failed. She underwent angioplasty treatment with the balloon blown up for over an hour to try and get the vein blown up, this caused more scaring.

I am trying really hard to find some kind of alternative treatment for her abroad or privately to do a bypass on the vein as I have found this is possible. The only problem is we can't fund it but because of the above I don't feel that her family should be funding it, I feel that the NHS caused the damage and have caused her to be bed bound for the last 6 years and that they should be paying for her treatment for a start and also compensation for what has happened.

There is much more medical negligence that has happened but this is the main problem that we need to solve.

What advise can anyone give about claiming for private treatment or compensation from the NHS?

If anyone has any questions please ask.

Thanks

[GlasweJen]

Well the first thing is you get her notes and see what the jnr doc said then take it from there. I'll say what i tell everyone with an NHS problem - get a lawyer.

[niklepic]

Unfortunately you only have three years from the date of negligence or date of knowledge of negligence in which to claim compensation for clinical negligence. As the negligent treatment occurred in 2001 you are statute barred against making a claim - unless of course you didn't realise the treatment was negligent until more recently.

	Statute barred In principle, a debt cannot be enforced after 6 years from the date upon which it became due. The 6 years runs from the last time that the debt was acknowledged in any way or from the last time that a payment was made towards the debt. Once a debt has lapsed, it cannot be revived - even through a subsequent acknowledgement or payment. The relevant law is contained within the Limitation Act 1980.

[poppynurse]

Giving morphine via a central line is accepted practice, I suspect the problem occured when the central line was inserted. Central lines are only inserted if venous access cannot be achieved peripherally, or if certain drugs are required which need to be given centrally. The majority of central line insertions are straightforward but there are risks with any procedure, these are generally explained to the patient before insertion (ie consent is gained) unless the patient is too ill and the central line is needed urgently. It can take some time to place the line and can be difficult as everyone's anatomy is slightly different. Superior vena cava syndrome is a rare but recognised complication of insertion.
In order to prove negligence you have to establish a duty of care, that the action undertaken fell short of reasonable practice and that the harm was a direct result of the negligent action. I suspect that this would be extremely difficult to prove as SVCS is a recognised complication unless you can demonstrate that the doctor was not experienced in insertion and therefore should have been supervised. (In addition to the time limitation problem).
Has the consultant been asked about the possibility of a bypass, if her symptoms are causing this much trouble it should be possible to get the surgery done on the NHS at a vascular centre (if she is fit enough for surgery and the anatomy is suitable). If the consultant does not think it would be possible ask for referral to a specialist centre for a second opinion.

[Paul Heathcote]

Please take a look at the following blog and feel free to comment.

'Hired Guns' in the Crosshairs

[poppynurse]

???

[kennythecelt]

Originally Posted by Paul Heathcote

Please take a look at the following blog and feel free to comment.

I'm sorry Paul but not sure what positive contribution you are trying to make on your first post here.

Kenny

[Paul Heathcote]

Hi Poppynurse & Kenny,
Unfortunately patients embarking on a claim for medical negligence assume the system is fair. Wrong! The NHS Litigation Authority claim to 'defend unjust claims robustly' and 'settle justified claims quickly and effectively'. Wrong!
Anybody embarking on a med neg claim should be aware that once a potential claim is identified medical records will disappear and original x-rays/scans will mysteriously vanish. The records will reappear, eventually, having been re-written to suit the Defendant's intended defence. This is known as RCOP - 'retrospective clerking of patient'. So , 'consumers' should be aware - fore warned is fore armed!

[christieuk]

Paul - you are so right. I was careful when I requested the medical records of my deceased husband (yes they killed him) and low and behold they missed the crucial piece of evidence. More interestingly, however, they had changed his observation chart. How do I know? Cos I had written on the original! When I got the med files, there was a brand new observation all written in the same handwriting for a 24/7 two week period (nurse must have been superman to work those hours lol) and sure enough my scribblings were not on that version. So yes beware of altered documents and be very circumspect when asking for medical records you may well get something quite different.

christieuk

[Paul Heathcote]

Hi Christie,
Sorry to hear about your husband. I heard the same story several years ago about 7 days of 24 hr nursing records being written in the same hand. The 'nurse' must have worked non stop for a week! Kennythecelt and poppynurse may not have experienced such shenanigens and hopefully wont have to endure such.

[orfoster]

Hiya,

Do you know what, I see what you are saying and it really doesn't suprise me! I actually don't work far away from the medical side of things myself (close to the ambulance service) although I don't have much life experiance to have seen much of this.

My partners mum has gone through some shocking accusations, I have now read through the diarres they made while she was in hospital. A junior Dr gave her an injection in her arm and the needle snapped, he didn't realise and weeks later they were telling her it was pulled muscle and to exercise her arm.

I am still pursueding them to get the files from NHS.

They are worried it would affect further treatment as she still relies on them.

[veester]

Poppynurse & Kenny,

Unfortunatly i have to agree with Paul having gone through an expensive private litigation process.

Notes were SO obviously tainted - completed seperatly etc etc....but hey, they say what goes around come around....i am sure that the respective Doctors/Nurses involved in my originally flawed treatment will get there just desserts from an unfortunate bit of luck which will strike them!

Can't say i have much respect for people who take the trust placed in them and skew it in there own favour.

I have total admiration for the surgeons who remedied my injury and could do nothing other then help.

The actual system allows Doctors to retrospectively complete notes - The process is called OCTAVE - take a look at the book on it. It's disgusting.

Before hiring an expensive lawyer (assuming you aren't covered by insurance) i would recommend you might want to kick start a process yourself.

Here are some links that tell you about the process, and actually point you in the direction of getting info without spending 1000s on a lawyer:

Pre-Action Protocol for the Resolution of Clinical Disputes - Clinical Disputes Forum

THE WOOLF REFORMS

A site for expert witnesses.

psychology expert witness,expert witness psychologist,Court Expert Witness

I am currently assisting my mother with a claim and i am using these links for assistance.

As for treatment being effectd; it quite clearly says in the NHS complaints process (tightened up since 2002/2005) that it cannot effect your treatment. You can also ask to be refered to an alternative consultant or if you to another hospital, best thing i think would be to sit tight and always have someone with your mother during appointments.

Good Luck

[Paul Heathcote]

Hi Veester,

I would be very interested in learning more about 'OCTAVE'. If you could point me in the right direction I would be very grateful.

With regard to my med neg claim my solicitor recently put in his report: "It is hard to believe that the Health Authorities evidence was anything other than intentionally misleading". To cut a long story short the HA's experts conspired to pervert the course of justice when they invented a medical condition on the spur of the moment in the High Court to defend my claim.

We will be, hopefully, having a conference with my barrister later this month to decide how best to proceed.

Good look with your mothers case.

Regards

Paul

email: pheathcote@blueyonder.co. uk

[orfoster]

Hi everyone,

I have read the above posts and they are quite interesting. I am trying to get the husband to request medical files. I have read the pre-action protocal but thats only if you are going to court isn't it??

We want to get the medical files to see if there is anything in the files to warrant a claim? I don't know how to get the files, I did find something on the local NHS website the other day but they have updated the site now and can't find it. Is there any set proceedure on applying? I can see there is a £10 charge but then also there may be a charge for staff time?? Lol that will put it up abit as I believe she has LOADS of files.

[Paul Heathcote]

Orfoster,
I would make a 'Subject Access Request' under section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998.
My telephone number is 01142 508353 or 07866 498977 if you would like to call me for a chat about getting ALL the medical records.

Cheers

Paul

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

[poppynurse]

I wouldn't put personal contact details on an open forum - you should PM them!

[Paul Heathcote]

A little advice for anyone about to embark on a med neg claim or already going through the process: Keep a close eye on your solicitor! I have recently had it confirmed that the solicitor who was acting for 'me' paved the way (without my knowledge, instruction or consent) for a local judge who was, and still is, a good friend of the surgeon on trial to hear the case. The solicitor actually specifically requested this judge! I managed to uncover this despite the same judge instructing the staff at the Court not to correspond with me.
No wonder the judge accepted whatever nonsense the defendant's witnesses said - he even let one witness read from a list of answers to anticipated questions whilst in the witness box.

'Hired Guns' in the Crosshairs

[Sali]

Orfoster,

I was charged £50 (the maximum fee) for my mum's notes that were about 15" high. The first time they were done, there were in higgerldy piggerldy order, back to back but not in any chronological order, some too faint to read and parts of the page missing. I did complain at the time, but the hospital didn't reply (they take the ostrich approach that if you ignore something long enough it will be sure to go away) and I subsequently applied again after my mum died, but this time I collected them in person, sought assurance that they were in order and and checked as far as I could. They had the cheek to charge me another £50.

I find it amazing and refreshing that you found a doctor who was willing to admit to making an error. The hospital management must have been horrified. How many people would not feel it necessary to go for litigation if there was an immediate acknowledgement of medical errors, an apology and, where possible, a willingness to make amends. If you did go to court and the doctor was called to give evidence he would perjure himself if he denied the conversation. I don't suppose you had a witness. I was also told by my local hospital that patient notes should contain a note of all key conversations. I'm not sure whether this is just my local hospital's policy or standard throughout the NHS. Still, my own hospital didn't tend to adopt it's own practice very often.

It is horrendous to think that healthcare staff would even consider changing records or completing them after the event. You could say that this was down to staff shortages, but that's an excuse, not a reason.

[Cissie]

My son was admitted to Hospital with a stab wound to his back and severe head traumas..he survived thanks to the staff there but..2 years down the line we have found he has a huge lesion to his brain ,and when he was admitted originally ie stab wound n head traumas he WASNOT given a head scan,every doctor hes seen since then, cannot beleive he wasnt given one.The lesion has left him with quite bad problems ,is there anything i can do about the hospital NOT giving him a head scan.

[poppynurse]

I would be surprised if there was no CT scan done if he had a significant head injury - he needs to request his notes and establish if a scan was done or not, what it showed if it was done, why it was not felt necessary if it wasn't done.

Was he unconscius or awake and talking throughout?