They've entered a defence!!

[Wissa]

It's all been going so well until this morning we received a letter stating that they intend to defend the claim at Exeter court. The defence states:

The Defendant is embarrassed by the lack of particularity pleaded in the particulars of claim to the extent that the particulars of claim fail to disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the defendant. In particular:

2.1 The particulars of claim set out no facts indicating what the claim is about, are incoherent and do not disclose any legally recognisable claim against the defendant.

Have we blown our chances by not getting the claim written up in legal jargon? I thought the £120 that was paid to the online court was for them to check the claim and ammend the legal jargon as necessary (most Nat West customers aren't lawyers and thanks to their disgraceful charges can't afford a lawyer either!)

The defence letter asks for another £100 court fees.

On the up side, today is day 30 since the claim was deemed as being served and we actually requested judgement by default YESTERDAY (day 29) as they had not defended in time. Anyone know if we're in or out of luck?

[Bonus77]

What exactly did you enter in the particulars of claim?

[Wissa]

I'm embarrassed myself just reading it but I thought the online court would re-word it in legal jargon (otherwise their £120 fee went towards the cost of printing off an A4 page and sticking it in a postage paid envelope which I may reclaim as unfair also!!) Anyway, this is what we wrote in the particulars of claim:

I am reclaiming all unfair charges levied against my account over the last 6 years. The charges mainly relate to exceeding overdraft limits and amount to £3137.50 in this time frame.
The claimant claims interest under section 69 of the county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 30/11/2000 to 14/06/2006 of £714.14 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgement or earlier payment at a daily rate.

Not very impressive I know!

[Janet-M]

You are not expected to know all the legal jargon but you are expected to understand what you are doing .This is why we stress constantly to read the FAQ's , step by step guide and around the forum .

They put the defence in to scare you , and looks like its worked , up to now not one has walked into a court room

.Have you sent them and the court the schedule of charges ?

The defence letter asks for another £100 court fees.

can you tell us EXACTLY what it says in the letter re this ? as they can't ask you for court fees so I am unsure if you have read it wrong.

The court do not re word your claim for you .

Check with the court if they have accepted your judgement in default .

Did you not see the Moneyclaim template? I seems like you filled in haste and didn't understand or reasearch what you were doing.

I have fiilled my claim in court yesterday and I did 2 A4 pages of particulars which I attached with my schedule of charges so they cannot squirm, and I have prob put in 100 hours on this site before doing so, It annoys me when people cannot even get the basic right, and then expect others to do the hard work for them when things go wrong. None of us knew anything about bank charges befroe we joined, we were all new once!

[cumbria123]

Wissa, don`t panic, this is all standard stuff, if it was a day late it doesn`t matter, the court will still accept it, you need to fill in the AQ form, and send it to your local court with the £100 fee (unless you or your partner are on oncome support and are claiming exemption)

[Wissa]

The letter from HMCS states:

The defendant has filed a defence. A copy of which is enclosed. An allocation questionnaire is also enclosed which contains guidance notes on how to complete it.

You must complete the enclosed allocation questionnaire on or before the 22 August 2006 and return it, where the claim is over £1,500, the court fee of £100.00 to Exeter County Court.

************************* ************************* ************
Following on from my first post, the defence from NatWest also states:

The defendant invites the claimant to remedy the above. In the event that the claimant fails to do so within 14 days of the service of the defence then the Defendant will apply to the court for an order striking out the particulars of claim

The defendant reserves the right to plead further to the particulars of claim once and if the claimant properly particularises the same. In the meantime, it is denied that the claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief whether as pleaded or at all.

What should we do now? Do we have to pay the HMCS fee of £120 again?

[cumbria123]

No, you have to pay the local court £100 and fill in the AQ, then get it to them by the 22nd.

[Karnevil]

You can amend your claim, it will cost you a fee of £35 which is non recoverable.

Give the court a call and tell them you need to amend your claim - they willsend you a form, I think its N244..... when you get it ask for some help completing it if you are not sure. Also check with the court about what to do re the allocation questionnaire. hopefully you should get the amendments done before the AQ's are due. Call them TODAY.

If your claim is struck out you will lose your £120.

Post what you intend to put on your revised particulars of claim on here first then we can help.

Don't worry there have been a couple other similar cases on here who have gone on to win.

[Wissa]

Originally Posted by Lueeze

Did you not see the Moneyclaim template? I seems like you filled in haste and didn't understand or reasearch what you were doing.

I have fiilled my claim in court yesterday and I did 2 A4 pages of particulars which I attached with my schedule of charges so they cannot squirm, and I have prob put in 100 hours on this site before doing so, It annoys me when people cannot even get the basic right, and then expect others to do the hard work for them when things go wrong. None of us knew anything about bank charges befroe we joined, we were all new once!

You're right of course, but it all seemed so cut and dry to me: they owe us money and all you have to do is write and tell them. I hope if nothing else we serve as a bad example and save other people from making the mistake. DO YOUR RESEARCH FIRST!!!

[cumbria123]

Print out all your charges etc, and clearly state your reasons for thinking them unfair, and send that to cobbetts with a covering letter, just to be sure they know what you are saying.

Oh my god, have you done NO reasearch whatso ever? Can you honestly expect Almost £4000 to be paid out without effort?

I honeslt think we should not advise users to use the MCOL anymore, If you file actual paperwork you understand the severity of what you are doing.

You need to pay £100, you would know this if you had spent any time on this forum.

No wonder Bankfodder puts messages up chastising users. Since when was this huge site and about 5 pages of FAQ's cut and dry?

Yes NatWest are trying to scare you and they HAVE.

[Wissa]

We have spent hours reading other peoples stories but they all seem to be at the 'asking for statements' or LBA stages. This site is so huge that I've just tried looking in the FAQ's to see what I've missed and it seems to offer nothing of any relevance (although I'm sure if I spend a few hours reading I might find what I'm looking for!)

I've just rang the court to request an N244 form to amend the particulars of claim. He didn't mention a cost attached to it. There is a limit to the amount of characters that you can put in the online particulars of claim box so how have people managed to send 2 pages of A4 in? I have just found this on another thread, is it any use?

I contend that: The charges debited to my
bank account are punitive in nature; are
not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred
due to any breaches of contract; exceed any
alleged actual loss to the Defendant and
are not intended to represent or related to
any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly
enrich the Defendant which exercises the
contractual term in respect of such charges
with a view to profit. The contractual
provision that permits the Defendant to
levy such charges is unenforceable by
virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in
Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the
Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the
common law. Accordingly I claim: The return
of the amounts debited in respect of
charges in the sum of £XXX; Court costs;
and Interest under section 69 County Courts
Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from
xxx (date)to xxx (date) of £xxxx and also
interest at the same rate up to the date of
judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate
of xxp (amount in pence)

Right, well I filled the paperwork way, as MCOL is not enough to file a strong claim. I honestly beleive MCOl is not that good, and you cannot submit a schedule of charges either.

There will be a cost of £35 plus the alloction Q of £100. Once you win it will be refunded by the bank, what has happened with the judgement? Surely if you are applying to get it by default you will not need to amend?

[Wissa]

I have rang MCOL this morning and they said that although we applied for default at 9am yesterday, it doen't get looked at until 10 am the next day, by which time the defence had arrived, so I agree that MCOL is almost useless!

[jayne67]

Wissa,
Have you got another thread, or is this the first one?
If so then perhaps you should have indicated earlier that you were going to reclaim your charges, and update at the various stages. If you had done this (or maybe you have), then if the forum members could have picked up your mistakes before the defence.
I am sure, even at this stage that the guys/girls on here are still willing to help you, but are perhaps a bit frustrated at the lack of 'effort'.
Anyway, good luck with your claim, I'm sure it will get sorted.
Jayne

We always help, but yes Jayne you are right its very frustrating as we get too many users making huge mistakes and then unable to rectify it themselves as they know nothing about claiming.

Anyway I understand the judgement is useless as they have defended, you will find they always defend on the last day.

Can you amend in person or do you have to amend online now you have started it online?

If you can amend in person there is a template in the library (N1 claim I think it says)

If not there is a template for Moneyclaim in the library too.

(green section)

[Karnevil]

Wissa - do some research before filling in the N244 form.

A couple of people have completed these recently. One being LostinParadise in the Abbey Forums.


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Lueeze - once the claims submitted online thats really it for the online bit apart from checking and entering default judgements.
I agree with you that Moneyclaim is too easy and the reality of what people are doing doesnt quite hit home until a problem comes up.
All amendments etc have to be done via the courts on paper - aka the N244 form. Love Karne x

[Wissa]

Thanks to everyone who's posted help. I'm VERY sorry to have cocked up so badly and I apologise to all the people who I've upset by doing so. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I won't be doing anything else without first posting a thread for advice. I've got to go to work now but I'll be very glad of any advice that anyone can give and I will respond as soon as I can. Thanks again guys!