My Last Hope

[alarmed]

When I was around the age of 19 I married and bought a house, when the marriage broke down we handed the keys back to Bradford and Bingley.
11 years later they started chasing the outstanding debt, my ex-wife I think paid £7,000 but when I offered the same amount I was turned down.

It is now around 12 years later and because we could not agree on a settlement figure they have added interest for the last 21 years.
So an amount that started of at £22,000 has grown to £80,000 and is still growing (having read some other posts, can they still be charging me interest) , I have in the past before it went to court offered various amounts which were all turned down.
The court case was in Leeds around trip of 300 miles and i could not get time off work, I asked for it to be moved closer but it never was, and stupidly did nothing.


The case was decided against me.


They from time to time ( about every 6 months) they ask for me to go to the court in to prove my financial position, which I do then I here no more.

After the last court visit, they sent me a letter stating they wanted an order put on the house i now own, so that i could niether remortgage or sell without thier say so.


Can you tell me what my options ( apart from the find some rope and a stout tree, which believe me is getting closer all the time) are as my wife and myself are worried sick, and this is driving a vast wedge between us.


If I have to go bankrupt, will I lose the house I have now, putting my wife and 4 children on the street.
I have 50,000 equity and very little savings.

[Goldlady]

Holy hell, what a mess. But please don't go looking for that stout tree just yet.

Did you mean that they refused your offer of payment many years ago? Do you know why?

And do they have a County Court Judgement against you? I presume that's what they have but just wanted to be sure.

I am not entirely sure how to proceed with this, but there has to be a way out. How long ago was the court case in Leeds?

Hopefully we will get some more knowledgeable people to help, but please do not despair.

[PriorityOne]

You say they "wanted" to put a charge on the house.... have they got one ? As has already been asked....do you have a CCJ ? If so, how much was the CCJ for ? Adding interest for 21 years sounds extremely iffy.... .... CCJ or not.

You say that your wife made a payment after 11 years.... how long after that did you start making payments ? What exactly are these 6-monthly court visits all about ?.... where you have to prove this and that ?

Apologies for all the questions, but don't even think of going bankrupt for these greedy barstewards !

[alarmed]

Hi

They dismissed my offers on many occasions, i went as far as offering 9,000.
the only reason i got was that it was'nt enough.

i do have a ccj for 77,000 the court case was around 3 years ago and the interest is still being added to the amount when i last heard it was 80,576

They have no charge on my house yet, but after my last visit to court, i got a letter from the new company acting for bradford and bingley which is optima legal saying that unless i agree to pay 50.00 a month and voluntary allow a charge to my house, they would take me back to court, and have it put on and i would pay the costs.

I have today recieved a letter from Optima, saying that unless they hear from me in 7 days they will proceed with legal action.

I have sent, a copy is below

My first wife made a payment around 11 years after we handed the keys back, i as yet have payed nothing.

The 6 monthly visits are as follows:

I get a man at my front door with a summons to see the clerk to the justice, when i go i have to fill in a form detailing my financial details indepth,, earnings , savings, house, cars and so on, even down to the electrical equipment in the house.

ask all the questions you like.

Dear Sir/Madam 22/05/08

Without prejudice

Thank you for your letter concerning the above account.
Please supply me with a full breakdown of the balance claimed under the above account.
In order for me to deal with this matters I should be grateful if you would supply me with answers to the following points:

• when did the arrears begin?
• when was the last payment made on the account?
• when was any possession order given?
• when was the house sold?
• what valuations were made on the property before the sale?
• what costs were involved in maintaining the property during the period between the repossession and the sale?
• how was the house marketed and sold and at what price?
• what costs were involved in selling the property?
• has a claim been made against the indemnity insurance and how much was recovered?
• how has interest been calculated from the start of the arrears?
• A breakdown of any solicitors', estate agents' fees or court costs that have been added on.

Please could you also supply me with a copy of all correspondence relating to this matter from the beginning.
I look forward to receiving your reply as soon as possible.
Yours faithfully

[Goldlady]

Do you actually know what the shortfall was?

[alarmed]

Just over 22,000

[Goldlady]

So how did the ex manage to get away with7k? Or are they pursuing her as well?

[alarmed]

I hav'nt seen her for many years, as i moved away from that area, but as far as i know she's in the clear

[Goldlady]

Are you sure it was that much? I don't mean to doubt you but if it was 21 years ago that is one hell of a lot of money.

[PriorityOne]

It sounds as if the ex made a F&F some years ago and B&B then decided to pursue you for the rest, but whether the statute-barred element comes into it or not needs to be answered first.... because although your ex may have re-acknowledged the debt within the 12 years for mortgage shortfalls, you don't appear to have. This may mean that they don't have a leg to stand on, despite all that's gone on.

I think the first thing you need to do here is to send a PM to either pt2537 (Paul) or tomterm8 to see if you can get a set aside to this CCJ.

Once we have an answer/opinion to this question, we can take it from there.

[PriorityOne]

I've just PM'd both of them for you.....

[pt2537]

Hi there

im afraid that mortgages are really well outside my comfort zone

however, all is not lost,

i would suggest that you get in touch with these people

Home its the Bar Council Pro Bono department which basically offers free legal advice to successful applicatants. they assess your case and if its considered as meeting the criteria then you will get a barrister to help you with the legal issues free of charge

its worth making an application to the pro bono department as the worst the can say is you are not eligible

AFAIK its not means tested either

[PriorityOne]

Thanks to Paul for looking in...

Alarmed, you quoted a letter in post #4.... this needs to go off as part of a legal request; namely, a Subject Access Request (by rec. delivery), otherwise they will probably ignore you. Take the Without Prejudice off it as well. The only people this phrase protects is the very people we're usually at war with, in my opinion. The S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) costs £10... and there is a template on this site that you can adapt for your needs. If you don't know where to find it, please shout.

I realise money is probably very tight for you right now..... but under the circumsances, a separate S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) probably needs to go to both B&B and Optima... (£10 each, both by rec. delivery). With all the underhand tactics that have gone on over the years, it would be interesting to see how both parties may decide to justify their actions when info. is requested as part of such a request. You also need the full picture of what's gone on.

If I were you.... I wouldn't be afraid of going to court at all. If you fight this (and it seems that you have no choice)... all their dirty washing will have to come out in court. Up until now, they've had a huge judgement by default... and are probably hoping for a similar easy success with a property charge.

I'm not a legal bod on these forums, but I have gone through a repossession and settled a shortfall debt many years ago. There was no CCJ in my case, which made things a lot easier..... so we need to find out if yours can be set aside first. There is also the statute-barred angle to look at from all those years ago.

Either way though, both S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) requests need to go off soon as possible. You also need to ask for documentary evidence of the CCJ as part of this request and, documentary evidence allowing them to continue adding interest after the CCJ....

I will try and PM some others for you... as this one needs a collective on it.

[car2403]

Originally Posted by PriorityOne

It sounds as if the ex made a F&F some years ago and B&B then decided to pursue you for the rest, but whether the statute-barred element comes into it or not needs to be answered first.... because although your ex may have re-acknowledged the debt within the 12 years for mortgage shortfalls, you don't appear to have. This may mean that they don't have a leg to stand on, despite all that's gone on.

I think the first thing you need to do here is to send a PM to either pt2537 (Paul) or tomterm8 to see if you can get a set aside to this CCJ.

Once we have an answer/opinion to this question, we can take it from there.

Sounds to me like the debt was acknowledged when the CCJ was entered - especially as he's asked for it to be transferred to his local court, which implies the claim was acknowledged. As the CCJ was entered, I can only assume that it wasn't defended. (Default Judgment)

So, lets take this one step at a time.

Putting the debt to one side (I know, we wish!) for a moment, lets look at the CCJ. To get it set aside, one of the following must apply; (CPR Part
13)

Cases where the court must set aside judgment entered under Part 12

13.2 The court must set aside a judgment entered under Part 12 if judgment was wrongly entered because –

(a) in the case of a judgment in default of an acknowledgment of service, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(1) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied;

(b) in the case of a judgment in default of a defence, any of the conditions in rule 12.3(2) and 12.3(3) was not satisfied; or

(c) the whole of the claim was satisfied before judgment was entered.

So, questions that need to be answered are;

Was the claim form received?

It would seem so, but can you confirm this?

Was the claim acknowledged and/or defended?

Again, seems not, but can you confirm?

The debt clearly wasn't satisfied before a CCJ was entered.

Cases where the court may set aside or vary judgment entered under Part 12

13.3 (1) In any other case, the court may set aside (GL) or vary a judgment entered under Part 12 if –

(a) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim; or

(b) it appears to the court that there is some other good reason why –
(i) the judgment should be set aside or varied; or
(ii) the defendant should be allowed to defend the claim.

(2) In considering whether to set aside or vary a judgment entered under Part 12, the matters to which the court must have regard include whether the person seeking to set aside the judgment made an application to do so promptly.

So;
Is there a prospect of successfully defending the claim?
Is there a reason the CCJ should be set aside or varied?
Should the defendant be allowed to defend the claim?

and - if any of these apply - has he made an application promptly to have the CCJ set aside?

IMHO, prospect of defending the claim is probably quite poor. There clearly was a mortgage in place and the court probably isn't going to wipe this debt out. Having said that, you may be able to successfully defend part of the claim, as I'm thinking along these lines;

• Reclaiming penalty charges applied to the account;
• Challenging their right to continue applying interest post judgment, unless there's a clause in the original contract that allows for PJI (post judgment interest) to be applied to the account, or the fact the Court order allows it to be applied, (which is unlikely) they can't apply PJI. Also, if they do apply PJI, they shouldn't apply it to the Judgment debt, meaning that you can't "owe" £88k - what you could owe is the original outstanding balance of the CCJ, (Judgment debt) and then the PJI (Judgment interest) whatever that amounts to. If they've lumped the Judgment debt and Judgment interest together, they will have a problem enforcing it as they will have applied contractual compound interest on the whole balance, not just the Judgement debt. This is quite confusing - and, to be totally honest, is way out of my comfort zone too - but there is more background on PJI on Paul Walton's thread, which is also similar to your circumstances, if you care to read it; walton v rbos

I really do think that you are better off getting proper legal advice on this - there is so much at risk (seemingly over £50k in interest) and it would be worth getting professional advice. You should especially do that before going for bankruptcy! In fact, you can't declare yourself bankrupt without doing it, to my knowledge.

There is also the option of an IVA, which would probably allow you to keep your home assets, but again you need professional advice before even considering it.