OK, thx. Is there any specific legislation about this I can cite?

Fair enough dx, but are those examples comparable to a situation where a licence fee is paid, and the subscriber is obliged to chk a box that asks for agreement to the vendor's T's&C's in order to complete the transaction?

@dx100uk QUOTE: "Is agreeing to terms and conditions legally binding? Yes they are. Terms and conditions on a website are another form of legally enforceable contract. Traditionally, terms and conditions were agreed to with a signature. Online terms and conditions are generally agreed to through the consumer actively clicking a button stating they agree to the terms and conditions." There appears to be some difference of opinion here about the enforceability of T's&C's. Any comments in light of the above quote? I have received a long, rambling e-mail from their paralegal that still attempts to justify their ludicrous claim against my d'r. I'm assuming you guys don't need to see it before I reply.

@Andyorch - "Very likely loser pays the succeeding parties costs." Hmm ... You sure about that Andy? and ... Comments? Here's my problem. Letting them off the hook that easily after what they did to her doesn't sit so well with me. Our c/claim is a lot bigger than their spurious claim, so there is no quid pro quo here. So what if I made a counter offer? We'll drop our c/claim on payment of: 1. The overpayments she made under duress after multiple threats of litigation, and 2. We'll reduce our claim for the stress, etc., from £1k to £500. Failing which, see them in court. And why the apparent pessimism about our chances of success? Doesn't their own June '21 unilateral abrogation of what is, at best, little more than an implied contract sink their claim without a trace? No signed contract No letter of claim No response (to date) to my CPR31.14/15 request. Over 200 independent on-line reviews (incl. one from a solicitor) that excoriate them and their reprehensible MO. Seriously, how much more evidence do I need? Tell me I'm wrong, and on a hiding to nothing.

@Racer_Bod - They have 'previous' on this. Their MO (as per several Trustpilot reviews) is to tell their hapless victims who challenge their fake invoices "pay it for now, then we can refund you later after the query has been resolved." They never do, of course. They rely on their victims who fall for that ruse not having the stomach for a fight. So no, only legal recourse will force them to cough up. Half-cocked measures won't work with this outfit. @Andyorch - I doubt my d'r is up for that, but what if I take it up on her behalf? Ie, she stays out of it completely - no court appearance. Just a statement from her that I read out in court? I hear ya about costs, but even if I lost the c/claim, how likely is it that the judge will award them costs? Based on the evidence in our favour, a decision that goes against her on the c/claim must be, at worst, by the narrowest possible margin. If I'm right, isn't it just as likely that the judge will direct that we pay our own costs? It's been a while since I studied contract law (it was a module in my AAT), but I reckon it wouldn't take me that long to get back into the swing of things. And yes, I fancy my chances even against a barista. But £5k an hour for making me coffee? C'mon now.

Doesn't quite answer my ?'n. Their claim is based on: 1. their T&C's and the enforcement thereof, and 2. on an implied contract that incorporates those same T&C's, even though: A) No actual written/signed contract exists, and, in any event, B) They unilaterally abrogated that contract mid-stream by their own admission that they no longer have the authority to represent their clients as far as fitness classes are concerned. So by definition, there can no longer be any T&C's to which they can insist on compliance, nevermind continue to demand or take payment for licences that they can no longer issue. At the very least, the unilateral change of circumstances in their own agency implies either: 1. A technical breach of contract by the claimant that precedes any lack of compliance to their T&C's by the defendant, or 2. The want of a new contract and/or set of T&C's that take account of their abrogation of an existing implied contract, and the defendant's signature on same - even though they no longer have the legal authority to issue either. I appreciate the C/Claim is a separate matter, but bearing in mind the circs of their initial claim and their baseless but successful extortion of revenue to which they had no title - with menaces, I would have thought that her C/Claim had a much better than 50:50 chance of succeeding. But OK, if you still think I'm flogging a dead horse here, I'll advise her to settle.

Ultimately, I'm leaving that decision to my d'r. She's already indicated to me her wish to avoid the stress & time commitment involved in a court appearance. But before she makes the final decision, doesn't their June '21 e-mail (quoted at post # 10), as follows: ... shoot down their defence about an alleged contractual breach of their T&C's in flames? If you agree, doesn't that virtually guarantee a trivial win for her c/claim?

Just had a call from Pannone. "As a gesture of goodwill", they are willing to withdraw their client's claim - if we withdraw our counterclaim. [What a surprise!]. Their claim is based on: 1. Their T&C's clearly state that theirs is a rolling subscription/contract that can only be cancelled by giving 28 days' notice in writing, quoting the licence number. It does not lapse simply because the licence holder (ie the defendant) stops using copyright-protected music mid "contract." 2. The defendant failed to comply with their T&C's, and failure to comply because, for example, she was not aware of them or did not read them, is not a defence at law. I said I would put their offer to the defendant for her consideration and get back to them. Do we settle?

Done! KISS??? I'd rather get to know you a bit better first.

@Andyorch Could do with a bit more help re: Dunno if I have sufficient grounds for declining (ie answering NO) - especially since the claimant has ticked the YES box. Won't that make me look like the villain here? I'm not quite sure why a judge cannot make a determination here based on a simple presentation of the disputed fact. If you still insist the answer should/must be NO, what grounds should I give to justify my answer without appearing unnecessarily vexatious, etc.

@honeybee13 Yep, dx's reply clarified that much. Well, since you ask. I want to submit around a dozen or so Trustpilot reviews of PPL-PRS in which ppl recount their personal experiences of this company. I would like the court to consider them, in effect, as witness statements in lieu of personal attendance as witnesses. Would I be permitted to use their 'testimony' in support of our defence and counterclaim? Do I count them in the number of witnesses?

???

OK, just received a 'package' from the court consisting of: Notice of Transfer of Proceedings (not my first choice) Notice of Proposed Allocation to the Small Claims Track, and Directions Questionnaire (Small Claims Track) EX730 - Would you like to settle your case without going to a court hearing? Would appreciate some guidance on completion of #3 [the DQ], namely: Q A1. Do you agree to mediation? Q B. Requests contact details. Mine or hers? Q D. Do you consider that this claim is suitable for determination without a hearing, ie by a judge reading and considering the case papers, witness statements, etc etc. I have also received an e-mail from the claimant that had the following attachments: A letter to the defendant Their completed DQ, and Their defence to the counterclaim. If you need sight of any/all of these before you can advise, plse let me know. Many thanks.

Phew. Noted, & thanks.