Thanks for the replies. Have received another letter from LL solicitor, same form for secure tenancy notice of seeking possession. Now they have removed ground 10 and left grounds 3&4. am lining up an appt with a solicitor next week. All a bit strange as we had the fair rent agreed as a regulated tenancy. The LL has been through so many solicitors now it’s a struggle to keep up. one other thing, neither NOSP have been sent via registered or recorded post. The letter we have received (email only at this point) is comprised of a cover letter with ‘Without Prejudice’ at the top then a copy of the NOSP. Does it have to be registered post in order for the notice to be seen as served? will post back after solicitor appt btw cheers

Thanks for your reply. So are the tenancy one of the same thing? I always thought they were sitting tenants (regulated) because they moved in there in 1984, and it’s a private landlord not a housing association property. The particulars in the claim are very arguable. The only deterioration was caused by the LL when they attempted to bring the property up to a safe standard. Parents have maintained the property as far as decoration and basic repairs but nothing structural. Waste is all they left from the works. We have evidence to back this up also. Will seek further advice, but I asked you kind chaps here just to be sure convert-jpg-to-pdf.net_2021-01-21_20-37-05 3.pdf

I have previously posted about a dispute my parents have had with LL who has had little to do with the property they have rented for the last 35 years. Fast forward to today, LL has applied for fair rent which was registered and the LL has finally brought the property to a safe standard following involvement from the local council. We have received a new bombshell.. that the LL has applied for a possesion order under a notice of seeking possesion of a secure tenancy (NOSP). Under grounds 3, 4 and 10. I googled and found below: Ground 3 – Deterioration in the condition of the property The tenant, or anyone else living in the property, must have caused deterioration in the condition of the property or common parts. If damage is caused by a lodger or subtenant of the tenant (without the tenant's consent), possession will not be granted if the tenant has taken reasonable steps to evict that person. Ground 4 – Deterioration in furniture provided The tenant, or anyone else living in the property, must have caused deterioration in the condition of furniture provided by the landlord in the property or common parts. Where damage is caused by a lodger or subtenant of the tenant (without the tenant's consent), possession will not be granted if the tenant has taken reasonable steps to evict that person. Ground 10 – Demolition or major works Where the landlord intends either to demolish or reconstruct or do works to the property and needs possession in order to do so. The landlord must prove that it intends carrying out works and such work cannot reasonably be carried out without obtaining possession. [2] If the tenant agrees to vacate the premises temporarily while the works are carried out then there may be no need for possession. The displaced tenant will normally be entitled to compensation. [3] See Problems during repairs for information on compensation for loss of home. My question is, following the fair rent register and an agreement that parents were covered under the 1977 rent act we were under the impression this is a regulated tenancy, not a secure tenancy?? or is there no difference? Its a private rent, not through housing association and the property has just been deemed as safe under by the council. We have also never been approached by the LL to say they felt that my parents have caused any damage or deterioration in the condition of the property. If anything, over the years it has vastly been improved by my parents. We raised safety issue to the council following repeated attempts for LL to repair the dangerous electrics and blocked drains. If there is no difference in the tenancy types, what should our next step be? any thoughts? More info if needed in my original thread https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/421879-major-repairs-to-letting-of-a-sitting-tenant/?tab=comments#comment-5064284

Thanks for your replies so far. The saga continues! We were informed the property was already being considered for fair rent assesment. The LL applied for this, and the letter has come through. Just to highlight the top points by number as they show on the application for registration of fair rent that i feel could be contentious. One good thing is they have confirmed the original tenancy started back in 1985 which does confirm our protected tenant status at least. 5) Does the tenancy include any other property (Such as garage etc)? LL has answered 'NO' but the property does have a seperate garage (not in great condition), also it did have a conservatory until the LL removed it due to safety reasons (With no intention of replacing) 6) What rent do you want the rent officer to register as a fair rent? LL is asking for a rent increase from £260 per month (Which it is currently) to £1000 per month. I understand that the rent has not been increase for many years, but the house itself is in very poor condition, even after the recent works to make safe (Electric re-wiring, and a very poor job of making good - holes still where previous sockets were, sockets removed altogether, list could go on for some way!) From what i understand, the LL can request a rent well above the traditional market cap because it has not been registered for fair rent in the past. Is that correct? I understand there is a calculator which takes RPI back when tenancy started and as a percentage calculates to today +7.5%. I tried to work it out but wasnt sure i was doing correctly. 11a) What repairs are the responsibility of the LL LL has answered 'None'. I understand, in older TA the detail would normally be on the agreement itself detailing who is responsible for what. We only have the signed page from the orginal LL and my parents, which from what i understood is all we were given at the time. If i assume the remainder of the agreement was a standard tenancy agreement then there would be no detail of repair responsibility and it would faill under the landlord and tenant act 1985. That makes sense, as the LL, although registering the fact they have no responsibility has made the effort of attempting to make the outside of the property structurally sound (It still is very much dangerous with even the old concrete slab left by the conservatory having 2ft holes around the sides, with the old electrics hanging off the outside wall (unconnected). Not even mentioning the rubbish they have left clearing the trees to investigate drain issues. 11b) What repairs are the responsibility of the tenant? LL has answered 'General upkeep of the property' We agree with this, and have more than played our part. It could use decorating in some rooms, but generally the property was kept up with my father repairing as and when required and making significant improvements without changing the structure of the property). It was practically a shell upstairs to begin with. 14) During the present tenancy has the tenant carried out improvements or replaced fixtures, fittings or furniture for which he is not responsible under the terms of his tenancy? LL has answered 'NO' We would say this is very much incorrect. We have installed gas central heating at our own cost, recently changing the boiler at our cost. We have relayed the driveway (Although not the best job, but it was falling apart). We have fenced the rear of the property, made the garage safe amoung other things. Okay so that was the application. The fair rent officer has been very polite and we are planning to write outlining the items we do not agree with or at least have comment to add and request to discuss the matter. Question 1- does my mum need to be there? She is very intimidated by the whole process and we are already acting on her behalf. It mentions the LL should be there, which makes my mum very uncomfortable as the LL has a tendancy to upset things, making mean comments, and accusations (I understand there are always 2 sides to a story, but she should be tactful or put it in writing rather than throwing these things at someone older and not in a good position to retaliate). Question 2 - There is a LOT of unfinished work from the re-wire, we have a list of issues that we would like addressed. Should we bring this up before the meeting with the fair rent officer? The council are intending to inspect also, so perhaps just let them spot the issues?? Question 3 - There is a genuine worry, that if the council do decide the property is unsafe still that mum will need to find somewhere else at her own cost. Is that something we should be concerned with? They really did everythign for as cheap as possible and the place itself (in builders own words) is still unfit to live in. Question 4 - Who is responsible under the 1985 landlord and tentant act for flooring? Mum has always taken care of this herself, but the kitchen is in a shoddy state and we are about to put a floor in but not sure if its our job. Question 5 - The kitchen, has an old solid fuel Rayburn. The LL is refusing to remove it, but it is unsafe to use. It has a hole in the side! We have offered to remove at our own cost but LL is refusing permission. It also causes a secondary problem, previously mum kept her freezer in the conservatory as the kitchen was too small to accomodate. When the conservatory was removed, we moved this to the second bedroom but it couldnt stay there. As the LL has no intention of replacing the conservtory they have suggested the freezer be kept in the living room. We dont want this, are happy to remove the unsafe rayburn to make room for the freezer. Is there anythign we can do? Question 6 - We have reported the issues well over 2 yers ago to LL before involving council. Previous legal advice have said we can sue for damages. We arent so fussed on this, we just want the place safe. Are we doing the right thing? Question 7 - LL keeps coming back, at minimal notice (24hrs max) and just turning up. A lot of the time, we are okay with this if it means the property is going to be repaired, but it is fairly frequent and really makes mum feel uncomfortable as we cannot always chaperone. We can refuse this cant we? At least until its more convenient with us? Am sure there are more questions, such a complicated thing to deal with. We really dont want to spend a lot of money on legal advice if we are able to establish a few things first with any help we can get here so all the assistance is very much appreciated! We arent trying to stiff the LL, are happy to pay a fair rent but feel the LL is not living up to their obligations. The repair standard is completely sub-par and slap dash, its clear the idea is for them to make safe as cheaply as possible with little consideration on the mental impact its having on the tenant.

The agreement we had did include the local council throughou. Would that email exchange with terms temporary move not constitute a binding agreement? The legal advice we had just mentioned the LL had to confirm my mum would have the right to return. We have only ever had tx messages until recently when we insisted at least communication should be by email. The emails are never more than a few words, if they do now expect AST to be in effect they haven’t made any hint at all of this. Thanks for the advice, will sign up to fair rent now. No. The original LL passed away, the property now in the hands of one of his children.

Hi Yes, there was an agreement but it didn’t specify the specifics of the work. Only that the property was going to be re-wired and specifying the dates the property needed to be vacant for, along with confirmation of the right to return upon completion of works plus agreement for reasonable costs should work overrun. the problem is, we did most of the leg work. The landlord barely knows how to use email, and has very poor communication. Mum is quite intimidated by her. The council are insistent the works to make safe are done, but have never visited the property to see the extent. I know now we should have instructed an environmental health surveyor at our own costs but we were hopeful the repairs were done to a good standard. I have seen in some articles about 1977 rent act that we are responsible for inside the house and the land lord for the external building and structure. Its not on the fair rent register, it’s a private let with a signed 1977 rent act standard tenancy agreement back in 1984. Rent has only been increased a handful of times so it’s very low. LL has not indicated a rent increase as yet but know it’s coming. Also to add, the agreement was by email and not witnessed. It was a real rush and had to go with the best I could get with the council pressuring the LL to action repairs the second Covid shielding dates came into play

Okay, so a little update. We gained some legal advice and had a settlement agreement in place which both us and LL agreed to allowing my mothers right to return when repairs were made. We put a time proviso and LL agreed to cover storage and housing costs should work overrun. So fast forward, work has been done.. but to a shocking standard. Re-wire was complete, wall chased out but the making good was not to a high standard. Only patched up with filler, and then painted. Other issues include * Paint/dust over the wooden floors * Holes unfilled from re-wire * Dust everywhere * Carpets/Lino in rooms put back badly so bumps everywhere * Paint overlapping anything/everything * They left a large amount of building waste outside the property * Felled trees pushed to the side, not cleared * Wiring going from internal to outside (Where conservatory previously was) still protruding The list could go on. They have damaged property also. Overall, considering the amount of money we have put toward the upkeep of the property we feel quite agreived) Now, to add to the fun they are introducing some new rules (We have none of these in any form of tenancy agreement. Just an informal email. 1) No smoking inside the property (Totally cool with that, as didnt anyway) 2) No decorating without permission or alterations to the structure of the building (Considering the poor standard the house is in, not sure how we can leave it as is decorating wise, but of course wont alter the structure lol) 3) Windows should be opened regularly to air the property (Only window we didnt open much was the bathroom because the only form of heat was provided by a rayburn in the kitchen which has been condemned - but not removed) 4) There will be periodic inspections. I dont know if these are actionable, but fact is they are things we would be doing normally anyway lol. Only issue i have is with the inspections. Can we refuse this if we believe it to be excessive? As she is a sitting tenant i would have thought we could. Can we re-decorate, i know short hold tenancy you have to ask for permission but am sure it is different for protected tenants. Any help appreciated, at the moment we are just happy she can get in the house.

Am looking for some advice, and i know you guys are always helpful My parents moved into a rented accomodation back in the early 80's and have a standard tenancy agreement covered under the 1977 rent act. As a sitting tenant, the landlord did virtually no work to the property, with my parents maintaing when needed. We lost my dad a few years back, and my mum is struggling to maintain. We have had major issues with electrics and drainage which we approached the landlord for with no replies for last 18 months. We did all we could to work with them. I have done as much as i can do, but am aware it is quite unsafe and we managed to get the local council to help. They assessed the property remotely, and sent a list of repairs that the landlord needed to perform within 6 weeks. After tradesman have reviewed the repairs Include: Removal of an unsafe conservatory Rewire of entire property - including new mains Repairing a partially collapsed sewer. Repair/replace damaged single glazed windows. Making fire safe The landlords have been in contact and started some works, however - am very aware with mum being on her own, with COPD we need to keep her sheilded. Are the landlords obliged to put her in alternative accomodation while the works are carried out? What precautions can i make to ensure the tradesman are compliant with COVID-19 regualtions (We have not allowed any internal works to begin as yet)? Is there an alternative way out of this? Can i approach the landlords asking to move her into a more suitable property considering the works needed (4-5 weeks probable). Should i seek advice of a property solicitor at this point? Can they immediately raise the rent to market rate? (I think they/we need to appoint a rent officer) as its quite low at present. Is there anything we need to be careful of not to break the tenancy rules? My parents have been benefiting from the low rent, but have installed central heating, new boilers etc, lots of repairs to drive ways and maintenace. The place is on a fairly large space and they have always maintained the gardens. Personally, i would prefer to move mum into more suitable accomodation - but she loves this place and i know will struggle to leave. Any tips on how to handle any of the above! Thanks!

Bump for a hand

Thanks Dx much appreciated,

Thanks dx for your help, I will get scanning and post up what I currently have. The £2k charges and ppi will have also included, interest so probably a little over estimated on my part there. The thought behind my rough calc is my credit limit on my card was £2k, so was unable to use much past that limit. Possibly up to that point there were charges also. Also I have found random statements from back then which each month I've found show ( an example on one from oct 99, balance at that point was £2735.42) £15 late charges £15 over limit fee £18.14 ppi Then interest of £40.21 So maybe £1k of that is actually interest. Can post this up also if it helps? Strange the let me go so far over my limit and continue posting charges without defaulting my account [ATTACH=CONFIG]44229[/ATTACH] Find docs attached - I know quality isnt great, i used my phone and paint. If better copies are needed, let me know as have scans also Thanks for help! Dx, anything in my attachments I can use to dispute? Cheers for help

The SAR from Westcot revieled very little, but I do now have copies of the orders (missing original CCJ & POC) and a copy of the original applicaiton form CA along with the T&C's copied on the back. Am wondering if I scan them and post here, can someone help me figure out if there are elements that are unenforcable?? or ways to at least reduce the debt I recall that if a DCA wants to add stat interest to the debt, then the T&C in the CCA must have provisions to cover this. I cant see it has at all.. so wondering if i can at least get the interest removed and possibly the judgment set aside so i can defend against the inflated amount. The statetment I received from Westcot says: Original Balance - £4092.56 (Credit limit was £2k. This contains over £2000 in charges + PPI but waiting for SAR and statements to show actual amount) Payments - (£14.00) Legal Costs/Fees - £455.00 Interest - £2556.61 (There is no detail of how this is broken down or calculated) Further cost at final order - £210 Balance = £7200.17 Any help greatly appreciated

Thanks Andy, I will try to get a copy of the original summons. Cheers

Need some advice on this one. Have posted on a sub forum, but really wasnt sure if it was in right place. I had a credit card, back in 1998 which had a limit of £2k. I managed to max it out when my wife found out she was pregnant and had to give up work after being poorly. Back then, I had a few debts so took the advice from Baines and Ernst(stupid I know!) and stopped paying all unsecured and allowed them to deal with it. Needless to say the debts mounted, Baines and Ernst left me in awkward position and the credit card with charges elevated to £3k before it was passed to a DCA. A few charges later, and the debt went up to £4k, and I was issued with a ccj as I couldn't keep up with my Baines and Ernst commitment As I was a property owner, they put a charging order on my house in 2009, adding 8% interest to the judgment which now stands at £7200. I know I really buried my head in the sand and I don't want to avoid paying my debts but I really want to reduce this amount, it's so inflated. I know I didn't pay much toward it, but things spiralled and it works out over £5k in charges and interest. I have the original agreement which shows I chose PPI, so have SAR'd them to get an idea of what I can try to reduce the debt by. I doubt they will be able to provide anything bring so old but am wondering were they in their rights to add 8%? Is there anything else I can do to reduce this, possibly get it set aside? Am slowly rebuilding now and really want to sort my old mess out All help very appreciated

Great that's good to know, I wonder why westcot passed to arrow if they are the same? Any thoughts on if they are allowed to charge the stat interest?