A couple of questions re Co-Operative Bank credit card. Brief background summary I have a credit card with the Co-Op with an outstanding balance of around £16k. This account has been in dispute with Co-Op since early 2009 and as far as I am concerned is caught up with an unlawful rescission and they did not meet my S.78 requests. They should not have continued to apply interest to the balance and this was the case during 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013 but I can see from my latest Experian credit file enquiry that the Co-Op still have the account in their name rather than any Debt Collectors and they are now showing the default balance increased by just over £1k in January 2013, I assume as additional interest and penalties. I have not been advised of any new charges being applied or any update from Co-Op on the status of my account. I have previously back in 2010 put my point across re the S.78 and unlawful rescission. I have also requested copies of my signed agreement for the card but the Co-Op were unable to provide anything only an application form (so therefore my understanding is they can’t enforce anything through the courts). Previous letters from them state; "The bank acknowledges that none of the Termination Notices served were in fact effective in terminating the Agreement, as the requisite time period was not afforded to you to rectify the default. As such your account was terminated incorrectly. I appologise for the inconvenience and confusion this must have caused" They then goes on to say; "The effect of the incorrectly served notices is that the bank cannot enforce the debt against you although it is still entitled to take certain recovery action, including the issue of court proceedings during the period of default" My thoughts are therefore they have (without the agreement) ‘gifted’ me the money and can only ask for it back. The debt is unenforceable, without an agreement a court is prohibited from making a judgement. Also, if they had a watertight case against me for that kind of value then they would have taken me to court by now rather than letting it sit there. Questions 1) I am looking to let this sit until the statute bar date (6 years) which by my calculations should be in 2016 but on my Experian report Co-Op have changed the default date to show January 2013 when I have been in default since 2010. How do I get the Experian report to show 2010 2) The amount shown on the Experian report is incorrect as how can the Co-Op prove how they have calculated the balance with no agreement and having not applied any charges or interest during 2011-2013? 3) Should I try and get these point corrected or leave until the statute bar date is past (i.e. by my calculation i.e, in 2016 rather than theirs – i.e. 6 years from January 2013) and then tackle it? Thank you, Fred

Yes, I agree hold fire. I am in the same situation. I plan to wait to see something more than computer generated standard letters. I dont want to open up any dialogue with these guys as I belive its all phishing at the moment to see who is going to reply to us so we can hassle them.

Also in your post above you mentioned I now have CONTRACT with the Debt Purchaser when I only had an AGREEMENT with the original Credit Card company?

Thanks for your reply! Well I suppose if you ask the question then the reply may not be what you want to hear. I note what you are saying re charging orders, Court Jdgements etc.. but surely if they had a 'water tight' case against me then I ask myself why haven't they taken me to court, why hasn't one of the 4 DCA's taken me to Court, why sell the Debt on (for what 10% max?) to this new company? This has been going on for 4 years now and I have dealt with 4 DCA's and the original Credit Card company couldn't produce a copy of my original Agreement. They couldnt even knock one up to show what it would have looked like - proberbly as all I remember was one of those tick box style return slips. I do appreciate your reply and comments though, so please don't think I don't. Thanks,

I did a search to see if this has been debated before but couldnt find anything - unless its tied up with ongoing threads that have been going a while and a thread started has moved on with later posts discussing this? Thanks,

Dear All, I have an outstanding balance on a credit card (approx. £11k and nearly 4 years old) and have received a letter saying in a round about way that the debt has now been sold on to another company. The main sentance/wording of the letter I received from these new owners goes:- "... we have had assigned to us all right, title, interest and benefit in the debts due in relation to the account ....." I don’t think it matters which credit card company it is or which DCAs have been hassling me for the last 4 years, I am interested as ageneral point that I now believe that as the account has been sold on from the original credit card company to a new company that as I have no contract with this new owner of the alleged debt I therefore don’t owe this new company a penny. As the original credit company has been paid for my account then I don’t owe them now either? I intend to simply ignore any further letters etc. fromthese new owners of the original debt as they have in effect kindly settled the account. I never asked them to do this therefore I intend to simply hold tight and not send any letters or make any other communications with this 'new owner'as I really don’t want to open up any new lines of communication with these people or see that it is my problem to go back to the original credit card company. Would others on this forum take this stance also? Thanks,

Brig, the CRA that I currently use to keep a check on has all the Credit Cards that I have (and wish to keep an eye on) then is that not sufficient? I would have thought that if the credit card companies send information to say 2 of the 3 CRA's or even all 3 CRA's then they surely have to send the same information? Else, do they update the ones they use with sometimes different information - surely not!!? Thanks,

Thanks Brig and Natalie for taking the time to post here.I think I will look at checking the other two CRA's that I dont currently look at.If it (i,e the debt) does pop up again it will be interesting to see who it is and if I receive any letters or phone calls about it. Thanks,

Hi Brig, thanks for your input. Debt sold on sounds like that could be the answerhere. Not sure if that would be good news or not!? I have signed up one of the main CRA's but hadn't thought about regularly looking at other CRA's to see what they have on file for my credit history. Is it worth checkin the other CRA's as I have always thought that if I keep an eye on one that would be enough?Thanks,

Hi. Just a quick question that I would be grateful for someone to offer some thoughts on. I have had an ongoing disput with one of the big credit card companies which reached a stale mate position several months ago and I have heard nothing since. It is not over 6 years old (about 3 years old) so not statute barred. I have over the last few months been pulling off my credit file from one of the main CRA's and the credit card debt has just sat there no change. I called up my credit file this month and the entry has now gone - no mention or record at? The numbering of the entries for other credit cards etc,. also shows that this one has gone as the numbering has changed. My question is - has this debt now 'gone away'? It is strange as it is not over 6 years old that it has now gone, yet other credit cards I have had and settle/closed a long time ago still sit there. Any thoughts anyone? Thanks,

Hi Stigman and Cecil, thank you both very much for your comments regarding my questions on this thread. I appreciate your input. My original SAR only produced an application form for this credit card (which was opened way back early 1990's). I have had the usual letters pointing out that as I have used the card and spent the credit avaialble had previously paid my monthly statement on time etc.. that I have clearly shown that I have obviously accepted the terms and conditions etc... etc.. and therefore the agreement is valid and I should pay up. Does anyone have a view point on credit card companies taking this kind of line trying to justify/convince you that you have an obligation now to pay based on this argument (although we dont have the correct paperwork to take you to Court if you dont pay)? It looks to me that from what I allready know and from trawling around on the various threads here on CAG and reading both your comments that it looks like the Co-Op havent got much to go on and proberbly know they cant do much against me as they dont have a clear CCA (only an application form) with none of the prescribed terms and they also must know that they messed up the default and termination notices. They tried via their inhouse legal dept to "tidy up" the error on the default and termination trying to put the original error down to some admin/computer mix up. Their last letter from their inhouse legal dept (solicitior M Broadhead) says (quote): "The bank acknowledges that none of the Termination Notices served were in fact effective in terminating the Agreement, as the requisite time period was not afforded to you to rectify the default. As such your account was terminated incorrectly. I appologise for the inconvenience and confusion this must have caused" He then goes on to say in his letter: "The effect of the incorrectly served notices is that the bank cannot enforce the debt against you although it is still entitled to take certain recovery action, including the issue of court proceedings during the period of default" Their angle on this after several confusing paragraphs is that they believe that I have not suffered any detriment as a result of the dfault & termination errror. Basically they seem to be saying as its a few days and that they re terminated the agreement with the correct number of days a few months later that this has put things right. So why confirm (in the quote above) that they cant enforce the debt? I think they are happy now to continue trashing my credit file and wait untill I need to raise some credit with someone else in the future to realise how much damage this will have done. I take the point that maybe I should leave things as they are and not stir things up anymore by doing another SAR? But, Should I go for it and get them to stop trashing my credit file and get them to write the account off? When I say go for it I am worried that it could pop up again or maybe they try some kind of reconstruction to provide a "valid" CCA (using the 'Carey' judgement) and try their luck again at a later date. Any advice? Thanks,

Hi, I have an issue with the Co-Operative bank and a credit card account that I have with them. Firstly I have evidence that they have issued incorrect default notices and termination notice as the required numbers of days was not correctly given. I have pointed this fact out to them and they issued revised default notices and a second termination notice (this time allowing the correct number of days). I have rejected their reissuing of the default notice and again pointed out their original error. I obviously kept copies of all their letters. As a matter of interest the account has not been passed to any debt collectors or solicitors. Amount outstanding is over £9k and this has been terminated (originally) in May 2010 after arguing about the lack of them being able to provide an form of valid credit agreement since January 2009. It has now been a number of months since I have heard from them and all I get now each month is a credit card statement which shows another months interest calculation and £12 charge for being overlimit and £12 for late payment default. Interestingly I also get their regular updates on changes to the terms and conditions of the credit card and a bit of junk mail with special offers on things like Co-Operative Insurance etc... I also note on my credit file with Experian that they continue to record defaults on my not paying anything and being in arreas etc. . I am sure their tactic is if they cant collect on the account then leave it and simply trash my credit file with defaults etc.. If they had a strong case to collect or take me to court then why havent they done so? My questions are if they have Terminated my credit card account then: 1. Should they still be applying interest and penalty charges? 2. Should they still be recording my default each month with Experian etc..? 3. Should they still be using my data to send me junk mail/mail shots and account updates? 4. Can a credit card account be terminated twice? Any advice or comments welcome. Thanks,

Hi PGH7447, yes I am going to make them an offer as a full and final on the back of going in hard on the other points raised above. Thanks,

Hi, just looking back over my papers (notices received) the actual arrears quoted is actually only about £600. The £3,000 mentioned above is what they are seeking as their minimum payment required as per their statements. Thanks,

Thanks for your input JSA12 - useful link to a summary of Judge Waksman in the 'Carey v HSBC' case from your link. By the way the bank I am refering to in my postings is not HSBC). I think the bank that have sent me the letter would proberbly try and argue that the incorrect Termination letter sent to me (not allowing 14 days notice) was an administrative error - to which they have now months later tried to 'correct' by reissuing and sending along with an apology and a £700 credit to my account as a goodwill gesture. The couple of lines in the letetr offering apologies and financial recompense of £700 then quickly turns into several nasty paragraphs of here is a reconstituted copy of your agreement (as we are relying on the Carey v HSBC case) and demands to pay up imediately the balance they say is owing (with a ps. by the way weve trashed your credit rating - although we wont admit that in writing).