Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your claim for JSA© too - I've been waiting 6 weeks now for a decision whether they are going to pay out or not (and I HAVE a full 52/52 week contrib. record for 2009/10 & 2010/11 on PAYE) so cannot quite see what their problem is to be honest ! I agree that the people at the Belfast processing centre don't seem to want to be of help either when you ring them up and treat claimants oh so badly when you try to get your point(s) across to them too. Latest issue I've discovered/had to endure (due to their own incompetence) is that they cancelled my original claim on basis I had not replied to a letter they sent which never arrived because they put the wrong door number on as the address - I therefore had to submit a new claim and plead for the benefit to be back-dated to date of original claim. No idea whether they will/won't pay out at all as yet though. Keep on at them and send a letter (recorded delivery) telling them you've tried to speak sensibly on the phone but no-one wants to know so now you feel you have to make a complaint. They have acknowledged my complaint letter now but said that I have to wait up to 15 working days for a response (and presumably no decision/benefit meantime?). Oh and I've also had a text meantime telling me my claim has been approved and to expect the money within so many days after I next sign on (which is tomorrow) but I bet that plan's been scrapped too now because they cancelled the original claim ! No wonder this country's in such a mess right now !

Way too late for getting help with this from an Employment Tribunal. However, do check at CAB for advice on how to issue a civil claim in your local County Court for the debt if you prefer. Under the Civil Procedure Rules you have up to 6 years (from the date the debt became due to you) to start the action and, if it's a "small claim", does not cost much nor expose you to Costs Orders being awarded against you for a genuine dispute and not a provable vexious one should you lose. Good luck!

BUMP = c'mon surely someone must have an opinion to offer on this?

At least you have had something in writing confirming your job is "at risk" - I haven't even had that much so far - and would therefore question whether being aware of the impending move since the outsight would give the employer a "get out" clause re. failure to serve proper notice on me come moving day. As for your own situation I cannot see why they need to have more than 2 meetings with you - one to say you'e "at risk" and what the criteria for selection will/is likely to be - i.e. points based, and the other to confirm/deny whether you have been selected and why (selecting you for reasons that you are pregnant but pretending it is for something else such as performance doesn't seem particularly fair and thus unenforceable by your employet without financial penalty to be paid over to you on discrimination grounds). That's my view anyway, for what's it worth. I am no expert however.

Basically do I:-1. Sit tight, say nothing and see what happens in meantime or by moving day? Then raise issue of redundancy stating I want what's properly due, including payment in leiu of proper statutory notice (citing that I would have expected notice to be served in writing to be binding)2. Send a chaser to employer asking for response on Options 1,2 & 3. above?3. Raise the issue as a grievance in the interim (giving standard 28 days for a response) stating that I am unhappy that existence and/or terms of the alternative job offer has never been confirmed in writing and, similarly, am unhappy that terms of posisble redundancy, including notice entitlement and stat. redundancy payment entitlement based on length of service have, likewise, never been confirmed in writing thus making it extremely difficult for me to give a definitive answer on which option I am to take on/after the move.Another consideration is that if I am still "employed" under the terms of the existing contract, even if that is on Notice, beyond 6th July 2009 I will then be entitled to stat. notice and stat. redundancy payment based on 10 years' service and not 10 so it would seem to be in my best interests to let this situation run on unresolve a couple of weeks more yet. Would you agree?

Company I work for are due to relocate to an extremely rural destination 40 miles away from current office (which you can only get to by driving as no public transport gets close enough). Move date is approx. 6 weeks max. from now - as yet unconfirmed but very likely that's when it will be for reasons I won't go into here for the sake of keeping this brief! I am 44 and have worked for firm for last 9 plus years and am therefore, presumably, entitled to 9 weeks statutory notice and 10.5 weeks statutory redundancy money as a minimum (if I do not accept the move). The Employer has verbally offered alternative employment (i.e. same/similar job at new location). Surely this should be done in writing? Distance and time wise I could just about do the journey if I had to(though would never choose to travel this sort of distance for work eery dayin normal circumstances or even look twice at a job going in that location, no matter how much it was paying, because of the distance etc.) Clearly, if I accept the offer to relocate I would lose any entitlement to a redundancy payment (I do nt appear to be being offered a trial period) and therefore, on principle, think it only fair that my additional costs are covered at least in part and, with this in mind put forward 3 possible options to the Employer which so far have not even been acknowledged let alone responded to/refused. 1st Option - Redundancy with appropriate notice and payout at end of notice period. End of. 2nd Option - Redundancy and new contract on enhanced terms(with an alternative employer, if necessary, to get round any loopholes re. redundancy situation - new employer is possible if new contract issued by client I do most work for directly on basis employment is still supervised by current employer froma technical point of view). 3rd Option - Same contract with salary uplift equivalent to stat. redundancy payment (paid over 12 months per usual) which would, of course, give employer some comfort that I would see out the move int he new location for at least a year and save employer having to find a lump sum now to make me redundant (which might prove problematic if my perception of the Co.s finances/cash flow are anything to go by). What worries me is that none of this is in writing and my boss may turned round and say at move date because she offered alternative employment (assuming I refuse stating conditions of offer are unreasonable on many counts) I may then have a fight on my hands to prove it was a genuine redundancy situation and get the £'s I am entitled to by way of stat. redundancy pay let alone payment in lieu of proper notice of end of contract contract. Need to devise a strategy how to play this one out to maximise my return in the event that no additional £'s for making the move are forthcoming and I elect the redundancy option but have difficulties of the nature described above. Would appreciate some views/feedback as to my chances of success at an E.T. in these circs. please.

So, bearing all of the above in mind would any "refusal to move" on my part be seen as unreasonable by an ET (if no compensation offered or offer not confirmed properly in writing and subsequently acccepted by me)? Let's have a poll - Reasonable/Unreasonable/Don't know Thanks guys.

And this too (from another site):- When refusing to move becomes redundancy If you don't want to move with your employer, you may become redundant because: the job at the current location no longer exists you're being offered an alternative, but you refuse the offer as not suitable to you. Whether you get a redundancy payment depends on a number of factors, including how long you've been working for your employer. However, the most important question is whether you've ' unreasonably' refused an offer of suitable alternative work. There is no fixed distance which is 'reasonable'- it depends on your particular circumstances. If the new location is just a few miles away and you can drive or easily take public transport, it will probably be unreasonable to turn down the offer. If, however, it involves a difficult journey, even if it's only a few miles away, or affects personal matters like your family situation or children's education, it may be reasonable to say no. When you are facing redundancy there is a right to a trial period in any alternative job you are offered - check the link below for more information. Redundancy is a dismissal so you can always consider an unfair dismissal claim if you feel badly treated.

May have now answered by own questions here (but would still appreciate comments and feedback on how the rules translate to me as regards "reasonableness" or otherwise of me, the Employer, and my employer in the circs. descrined. I found this on a law firm's website and thought it relevant to post here. Suitable Alternative Employment If an employer can offer alternative employment and that employment is accepted by the employee then the employer can avoid paying redundancy pay. However an employee can refuse that offer if he or she is able to establish that it is not reasonably suitable on a number of grounds. The grounds for refusal must be clearly stated, a simple refusal for no reason at all would be classed as unreasonable. If the employer refuses to accept the employee’s reasons for refusal the employee may submit an application to an Employment Tribunal. The Tribunal will look at both the suitability of the job offered, and the reasons for the employee’s refusal of the alternative job separately and come to separate decisions respectively. When an offer of alternative employment is made it must be clearly stated what the changes are to existing terms and conditions to enable the employee to make a reasoned decision. The offer must be made before the existing contract and position is terminated and take effect within four weeks of that date. An employee is entitled to ask for a trial period if the job offered is of a different nature. The statutory period is four weeks, but this can be extended. All the conditions of the trial period must be made in writing prior to the trial period commencing. There can only be three outcomes of a trial period: acceptance of the alternative job by continuing after the end of the trial period. There will be no dismissal and the employee acceptance of the alternative job by continuing after the end of the trial period. There will be no dismissal and the employee’ alternative job is unsuitable due to differences between the old and new job. In this case the employee will be deemed to have been dismissed on the original date within the redundancy notice and a redundancy payment is made accordingly. the employee unreasonably decides that a suitable job is unsuitable or unreasonably refuses to continue with the job. In this case the dismissal will not be deemed to take effect on the original date within the redundancy notice and the employee will not qualify for a redundancy payment.

With regard to current travel - I do not use a car to get to/from work as I live only 2 miles down the road from the office and there is a good bus service which costs me £10 a week in fares. My employer knows this. Also someone else affected by the move doesn't seem bothered about extra distance/expense of the journey she will be making on top of what she does now by train so, presumably, is not asking for anymore £'s to compensate. Can my employer rely on this when refusing to give me something extra though? I see no reason for her to discuss/tell anyone else at work what I've asked for and got (or not as the case may be).

Thanks for the link Wino (which I had already found and read for myself anyway btw). However, you wil see that my OP asked for some opinions and advice re. strategy to be taken by me in the situation described, to safeguard my statutory entitlements (which have neither been confirmed, in writing, or denied to me in any shape of form as yet and I may therefore be worrying needlessly on that basis). More specifically, would an ET view my refusal to move with the company as unreasonable if I did not accept the moved and it resulted in a Tribunal claim by me to get any £'s owed/denied at the 11th hour do you think? Would appreciate some further feedback along those lines please - from anyone on here if possible? Maybe someone has been in a similar situation themselves (or knows someone who has been) and succeeded, or indeed failed on a technicality or something which, clearly, I would like to avoid wherever possible myself. Thanks in advance for looking at this again for me everyone.

Company I work for are due to relocate to a rural destination 40 miles away from current office (which you can only get to by driving as no public transport gets close enough). I am 44 and have worked for firm for last 9 plus years and am therefore entitled to 10.5 weeks statutory redundancy money as a minimum (if I do not move). This entitled has been confirmed verbally by my employer but nothing been put in writing as yet. There is 2 positions going at the new location but, once again, no offer of salary increase/compensation for extra travel time and costs which, in practice will work out to be 1.5 x 2 journeys and an 80+ mile round trip daily or 400 miles (£50 petrol) over the course of the week making a theoretical "salary reduction of £3K per annum for each of us after tax - not a particularly pleasing prospect. Am I being unreasonable not to accept the offer of continued employment under these terms? Should I ask for extra dosh to cover travel costs instead and/or take the redundancy option as the alternative if no deal on salary can be struck with Employer - and what do I do about having none of this in writing and then employer changing mind at last moment. Also, approximately 2 weeks ago a conversation took place between myself and employer fairly informally about the 9 weeks stat. notice period of redundancy I am entitled to but, surely, if no firm date has been set for the move my employer cannot rely on that conversation as the date "notice" was served on me for redundancy purposes, particularly when I had not given any indication one way or other (which is still the case as I write this) whether I would accept the move option, either on corrent terms or otherwise. Would really appreciate some guidance as to how I can play this one out to my best advantage. The sad thing is if she paid out the redundancy and offered me a new "fixed term" contract of, say, a year to begin with I could probably then afford to do the travel although, in all honesty, may flatshare during the week as an alternative. Moving lock stock and barrel to the new location is out of the question too (I am married, own my own house, have mortgage etc. and do not wish to sell in the current market - hubby does not want to move). As far as alternative employment elsewhere is concerned I am fairly confident that something will turn up for me with my 25 years' experience gained in various industries so being "out of work" is not my main concern right now - I just want to get what I am entitled to and not be "done over" by a boss who will not commit anything to paper re. redundancy (which, it could be argued I suppose, is not a true redundancy situation if she is offering alternative employment that I could take up if I was prepared to travel/lose £3k wages per year and run up 25,000 miles on my car I would otherwise not need to if I stayed put and looked for something else I could get to by public transport instead). Help !!!!!!!!!!!

The meeting has now taken place. I am pleased to report that the reception I got was a very calm, sympathetic and generally professional approach on the part of the employer and that the final outcome was that I am still employed with a Final written warning on my record for a max. of 12 months only which, although not exactly good, it could have been so much worse resulting in at least the hassle of taking formal qualified advice on merits of appeal/formal action in response which I’ve now been saved having to do – perpertuating the incident even further. I elected to go unaccompanied as was not comfortable with limited choice of eligible people available and was comfortable with neutral notetaker choice anyway, someone know to me and not the focus of my flame mail) I responded to the claims being made against me (i.e. Gross Misconduct/Serious Misconduct/Unacceptable use of work e-mail) in a very mature, calm and controlled fashion and that this approach ultimately reflected back on me favourably thus adding credibility to my defence that the actions I had been accused of were bascially a cumulative response (albeit it an inappropriate one however justified/necessary it felt at the time or even now) or reaction to a number of sourced stress-factors which had been allowed to build up by me and largely ignored by others despite the warning signs In my defence I cited mitigated circumstances and as my explanation for what I did, why I did it and why I dealt with the issue in the way that I did (sent an e-mail to 30 work/client employees as a highly inappropriate use of work facilities and generally O.T.T. in content - but highlighted to those present that I had not discredited myself yet further by using words or expressions, foul language, swearing or anything else careless enough that it could be seriously construed as defamation by any other particular individual - neither did I tell any lies about any of what had happened (in my mind) which led to the ofference - I am not completely stupid you know!). My "mitigating circumstances" to explain why I'd done what I did, in that way and at that time were accepted as a truly genuine and valid explanation (without an admission of right or wrong or justified basis on either side) for sending the offending e-mail out to its recipients in the first place and not just a convenience excuse to get me out of a very deep hole a little bit and save my job from going completely down the tubes (as predicted by some of my responders to my original OP seeking views - see First Time Poster - Discplinary Hearing thread for full details as necessary please). It was also accepted that my actions, whilst O.T.T., unprofessional, inappropriate or whatever else you wished to call it had been a clear and cumulative emotional reaction to a build-up of a number of different stress trigger factors sourced over a period of approximately 3-6 months and not just an egotistic overblown histrionics episode on my part resulting for things that had happened over the short intense period of events cited specifically in the mail in the 8 or days prior to the mail being sent. (the stressors had been sourced mainly from work colleague/collaborative relationships both in the office and other external sources of a personal problems nature. I conceded that my actions had been an inappropriate use of work e-mail facilities which may have/did bring my employer's reputation into question and the individuals employed there also - although stated that my own opinion that any damage caused would, I felt, be limited and temporary, and suggested that the employer and myself were possibly the only 2 people still actively discussing what had happened and only because of the need for the hearing today to deal with it. I said that, after the event and with the benefit of hindsight I recognised the pattern of events quite clearly and was confident that if a similar pattern of events arose in future I would be likely to recognise and not over react and thus be better able to deal with same in a more appropriate way, e.g. counselling, writing a letter but NOT sending it out, medication and other alternative therapies. I let the Employer who came up with that angle that this was always a possibile explanation as why I had felt the action to the justified – I still do actually but not to such extremes perhaps. and was confident that if a crisis situation arose I would know what help was available and how to get hold of it if required though did not believe any formal help to be required at this time. They did not suggest I was ill and needed help but hinted I might like to consider help and way of coping in simlar circumstances – I felt I am not ill or any such existing illness now is likely to be only temporary (nothing an early night or two and a few decent meals wouldn’t sort) and that what I was going through now was only temporary and exacerbated simply because of having to get through this hearing. I had been coping very well before the summons came and my perspective had improved considerably since I’d sent the e-mail. I did not admit that I still felt entirely justified with some of the issues – the truth being I am not sure yet what I feel about everything and will try not to analyze this any further for fear or dwelling on the same unnecessarily, it’s over, time to move on and all that. It was the Employer who raised the health side of things at the hearing, not myself. I was predicting the question would come up though and was prepared for it by admitting to doing some pior research on such issues as stress. mental health conditions etc it transpires that the notetaker admits to suffering from clinical depression herself (not that this was relevant for me to know that of course but I do now!) My efforts and clear sense of remorse - they seemed to believe me, that I had barely thought of anything else since being advised I had been called to a disciplinary hearing about it, particularly when a possible (& in some eyes the most likely) outcome on the horizon. I succesfully held back the tears pretty much right through the entire hearing – A goal I had set for myself in advance (not quite achieved fully). More than enough tears already been shed by me over this, possibly by others too that I am not aware of – my employer did come across as genuinely concerned for her own future should there be any fallout from the incident at a professional level for her – It seems she thinks this could have made the company unviable and thus everyone redundant and me never employable anywhere again presumably). She did not rant at me at any time though – which I thoroughly admire in the circs. As I was kind of expecting the opposite in those circs. And could just imagine the opposite happening anywhere else. Wake up calls all round I think, Directors and senior managers included for letting it happen in the first place methinks. It will be interesting to see if they learn and change their ways to cover themselves against accusations of bullying, letting things fester, conspiracy theories etc. etc. I did not beg forgiveness at any time - if I was reckless or bold enough to take a stance and/or take my chances and blatantly contravene expected standards that might put my job on the line in the first place, surely I should be similarly brave enough to take the penalty without the indignity of grovelling to save my skin or involving anyone else? So that’s what happened. Any comments anyone? Other than "you jammy sod" or "just how DID you do that (& unrepresented too" or "you should have been shown the door". A truly surreal life experience triumphing in the face of adveristy. Clearly my accentuate the positive approach worked or maybe that’s just a further weakness been exposed by my manager and a silent admission that just maybe she has F***ED up big style herself this time. So, provided I keep my nose clean, I should be in the clear in 12 months again – phew (that was close!).

I think I've realised what I did was wrong by now thank youl. Over inflated opinion of myself eh? Sounds a bit like pot calling kettle black to me .......... GODpikachu are you sure you're not describing yourself with that slur too? Last comments on the subject for now I have to make is that the Christmas thing was not just one incident it was several and was the epitome of a feeling I've been having since just before we all moved offices 3 months ago to where we are now - it appears to be collective bullying as suspected all along and then when I give a reaction (once baited) I have given them a ready made excuse to finally get rid of me but we'll see how I fare at the hearing won't we? Thank you in the meaning for enlightening me as to errors of my ways but did you have to be so rude about it? - remember your comments can be read as well as mine on here and you may be well advised to rein your temper in also if you are trying to be helpful and not antagonistic towards first time posters (which I am) who incidentally heard your message loud and clear from the first post - your last post is not even totally accurate anymore as to what my original complaint was about. I wish you luck in your own personal endeavours and trials you have to go through in life all the same, you are going to need it just as much as me methinks. Bye for now.

Some of these 30 people are friend of mine on Facebook btw (I'm on there under a different alias so don't bother looking eh?) and haven't deleted me either so I don't think they are that bothered either about what has happened - it WAS over 3 weeks ago after all.