As it has been many months since I last posted on this thread I just wanted to write a quick update and to ask some opinions as to how to move forward. HSBC sold this old debt to 1st Credit who have been chasing me , after a few back and forth letters along with requests for a copy of my original loan agreement, 1st Credit have written to say that " due to the age of the account, the original creditor has informed them they don't hold copies of the facility letters, or any other correspondence between the parties prior to the execution of the Guarantee". in spite of this, what could possibly be assumed to be a letter before action has arrived , even though it doesn't expressly say that, they have given 21 days for me to get back to them with an offer of repayment. As I have been away and only recently opened the letter , the due date to make an offer falls next week. Even though they have admitted that they can't get the credit agreement , this is still an unregulated loan secured by way of a personal guarantee and they can prove the amount owed by way of the statements. I was wondering if now is the time perhaps for a full and final offer, as I am pretty sure they are not going to go away. The balance they are claiming is just over £20k. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

1st Credit have responded saying that they are now aware of a dispute on the account. A bit weird as no evidence on Royal Mail tracking systems to say recorded CCA request was received. I never realised that under the Lending Code, HSBC should probably never have sold the debt in the first place if there were mental health concerns. In fact they should have avoided passing it onto any DCA's at all. I am wondering if I have a formal complaint against HSBC for selling this debt? I suffered a major mental breakdown which contributed to the failure of the business and was under psychiatric care for over 2 years, I was deemed unfit to work and as such had an income replacement insurance policy with HSBC to cover my living costs etc which was claimed against. I am guessing they should have been aware of my history of mental illness, even though this happened some years ago?

Thanks dx, will update when I get a response from 1st Credit to cca request.

Thanks for all your replies, a bit of an update just received a letter from 1st Credit saying they now own the debt, a copy of the letter from HSBC saying they have sold it to them was included. Should next best course of action be an account in dispute letter?

Hi, just an update as to this, HSBC finally responded to the CCA request a little while ago and have admitted to not being able to produce the credit agreement at this time, they also acknowledge that they wouldn't necessarily be able to seek recovery through the courts without it, however they did produce a copy of the guarantee I signed, and stated that it still acknowledges my liability for the debt. So Moorcroft then passed this back to HSBC, then HSBC back to Moorcroft, now it's with Wescot. Wescot have also informed me they have done a check and established who I am and that I am living at the address they are sending their threat o grams to. My divorce is still dragging through and becoming more acrimonious, until that is sorted out I am going to struggle with this, not to mention I may only end up being liable for half the debt as the business was set up as a family business whilst still married. I am concerned that the personal guarantee can complicate things, so just wondering if best to set up token repayments? Perhaps when the divorce is finalised and with the house being potentially forced to be sold under a court order, there maybe some equity left to make a full and final offer, or would it be best to just fire off a letter to Wescot saying account in dispute? At the moment token payments are what I can only realistically afford to pay, if that's in place would it not be more difficult for HSBC/Wescot to take it through the courts if and when they do produce the CCA?

Hi, I was just wondering how best to deal with Moorcroft who have been hounding me. I signed as guarantor for my HSBC Ltd Co. business loan when I started up in 2003/4. Unfortunately due to a breakdown and ill health caused from stress etc the business had to close in 2007, following that I did try to keep making what payments I could afford towards the loan (the outstanding balance is around 20k) but haven't paid anything for about a year/year and a half, however loan doesn't appear on my credit file. Have been burying my head abit as going through a horrible divorce at the moment and not quite able to deal with this as well, have been ignoring all their threat o grams. just need to hold them off for a bit until the divorce is finalised I kinda know where I stand financially. To commit to a financial arrangement with them at the moment whilst everything is still in limbo is going to be hard, and having been pretty much a stay at home Dad since the business closed, I will have to rely on tax credits, CB and maintenance payments to provide stability for my kids until I can get back onto my feet after the divorce is finalised. Should I treat this loan as I would a personal one and send off a CCA request? Or would it be worth just offering Moorcroft/HSBC what little I can afford to get them to go away? As they are threatening me, that if they return the account to HSBC, then HSBC will start legal proceedings?

Hi citizen, thank you for your post, many apologies for my delay in replying, been struggling these past few weeks. Cabot accepted my offer of a "token" payment (unfortunately I had already made it before I saw your post). My concern was that as the original egg cca looks ok (has original sig, correct terms etc) I didn't think there was much room for argument. There was a glimmer of hope a little while ago when the whole APR issue on Egg agreements was raised however if I remember correctly this argument was defeated in court. I feel that being the sole director of my small company, a CCJ might be quite an obstacle to overcome, so I am not confident enough to risk arguing in court if I can help it. A payment plan may just be the best way to help keep Cabot at bay. Maybe I have made the wrong decision As far as I am aware interest did stop when I was in the DMP. Will need to find original doc's though. Will do the SAR to see what charges were applied and if any PPI etc. I suppose the next step will then be to try and get any wrongful interest and charges credited back. Many thanks again for your help.

Hi, just heard back from Cabot who have confirmed a payment showing on the account in 2008. DMP must have still been in place. So I guess the best option is to start making token payments, as I can't afford anything else. The account had definitely been defaulted before Cabot got involved as I remember receiving default notices. Cabot have also been adding interest to the account, since they bought it. So would a plan of action be to start with token payments to help get them off my back and then send an SAR request to egg? Am I able to challenge Cabot regarding the added interest? Many thanks.

Thank you citizen, I will see what they come back with.

Hi, it has been quite a while since I last posted something, and a big thank you to everyone who has helped me previously. I have Cabot on my back now and I am not too sure what to do? Long story short, I lost my business a few years ago (2007), due to a bit of a breakdown and was signed off any further work for 2yrs, I had already defaulted on my Egg card by then (I think around 2005/6), made a handful of payments at the time through a DMP, but that didn't last long. Debt was then assigned to Cabot, I requested my CCA in 2009 which took over a year to arrive, when it did, 2 agreements were in the envelope, my original Egg one and another which looks like it had been drawn up by Citibank? (no signature, and as Egg card was taken out in 2000, it was long before Citibank bought them out). Two agreements for same card not sure if it would be any use against further action, warrant an official complaint or is just a bit of a red herring? Anyway, since Cabot got involved (around 2008/9) I have been burying my head, and have been ignoring them, not the best solution, I just felt that I was not strong enough to deal with them and feared that I may put myself back in that very dark place I was a few years ago, but their phone calls are now pretty constant and their letters are threatening litigation. The account is maybe, or perhaps close to being, Statute Barred, as I haven't made any payments in a few years (none to Cabot), should my first step be to send the SB letter? or would the CCA request have counted as an acknowledgement? Otherwise should I just start offering token payments, as I can't afford anything higher? The Egg CCA looks pretty legit so I am not sure if there would be any legs in that argument. I think I may.... have just answered my own question , however I would be most grateful for any opinions and advice.

Hi I am sorry to hear this, having had to deal with my company being insolvent, I know how you must be feeling. As is the case no matter how bad things seem there are always ways of working through them and you will find people will be sympathetic especially the Inland Revenue. In my opinion there are several options available to you; 1. Liquidate and pay the fees yourself if the company can afford them. 2. Apply for a strike off in 3 months (from date of cessation of trade) 3. Invite creditors to wind you up themselves (don't do this if the company has the money to pay a liquidator as it will look extremely bad and will not help you) 4. If there is any chance that the company can trade out of this pickle then a CVA should be open to you, you will have fees to pay though but will get creditors off your back until the company is solvent. Also gives you a chance to chase the outstanding money due. You could even then petition for the wind up of his company forcing the liquidators to look into his affairs and as he has several companies may prove to be worthwhile. 5. Phoenix your company, allows you to shut down and have a fresh start you can keep all your clients and in some cases your VAT number. Give Business Debt Line a call they are great and will go through your options. Also there is info on HMRC & National Debtline sites regarding Phoenix companies. Hope this helps, the most important thing for you to do is to make sure that you are not trading, because if you trade while insolvent the Directors could become liable for company debts. Chin up.

Likewise my home is also the company's registered address, in my case I applied for strike off in march 2008 and am still waiting, money being owed to Inland revenue so they oppose the strike off, yet will not wind me up so I am left hanging in limbo. Your creditor could oppose your strike off which as in my case will delay things however when I was threatened with bailiffs I had a stat declaration drawn up and keep that by my front door. Any hassles just hand them that and they will have to leave you alone. The stat. declaration costs £5 or so to do. Just find a local solicitor who is also a commissonor of oaths and that's it. When I did mine the solicitor was keen to stress that the stat. declaration is a very important document that can carry the same consequences as commiting purjury if any thing on your stat. declaration is found to be false. The bailiffs risk you suing for damages if they levy and remove your personal goods once in receipt of your stat. declaration. What I did, was to send along with a copy of the strike off application and copy of a stat. declaration, an invitation to each creditor to wind me up. Also tell them they risk court action if they don't stop persuing you personally. If you have at any stage signed a P.G. with any creditor then things do change quite significantly and you will be personally liable.

If so then perhaps we should use it to get as many brokers to jump ship like the rats they are, maybe then these little swifties will have only one direction to head this winter and that's south.

Can the fraud act be used against the lying **** brokers who act for swift?

Just to add something to the issue of assignment, there is something called "the rule of prejudice" I can't find much info about it but it seems to be very relevant to assignment as it awards protection to the debtor against issues which may be commenced without the debtor being party to them. If they can't provide original the original t&c's with your signature then how can they prove you consented to absolute assignment?