Insane Demands For Non Existent Council Tax - Help !

[rocket1]

Has the World gone Mad ? Or is it just Haringey council. If neither it must be me.

 

I am completely desperate for help !

 

My problem is that Haringey Council are trying to extort a HUGE sum of money in council tax that was never, ever owed in the first place.

 

I was in receipt of income support and claiming council tax benefit. According to Haringey council I apparently failed to fill in the annual 'renewal form' so they demanded payment of council tax.

 

Despite many efforts on my part to sort this issue out, including many well documented visits to Haringey's offices to specifically deal with this issue, nothing at all seemed to work, or rather Haringey accepted I was on income support but kept on and on telling me I was still liable for council tax because they said their forms were not correctly filled out.

 

Finally, I paid a visit to my Member of Parliament who contacted Haringey council. I thought the matter had been sorted out and I moved from the area seven years ago.

 

A few months ago in 2008 I suddenly received demands from Haringey for about £10 000 (yes, that's right, ten thousand pounds) council tax arrears - all of which is a figment of their imagination and relate to a period of time when I was on income support.

 

When I telephoned the council about this I tape recorded the most remarkable conversation whereby the most ignorant, rude and aggressive council employee announced they refused to speak to me and I could only speak to the bailiffs about the issue.

 

Eventually, when I persisted, I persuaded him to open up his computer ( he had lied in saying he had no access to any records) but all that happened was that he read through the narrative on the computer, repeatedly informing me that I was liable for the tax whether I was on benefits or not and pointing out that all my visits to their offices etc had not resulted in them sorting anything out.

 

He told me to pay or go to prison !

 

What in God's name can I do about this total insanity ?

 

I know I filled out their stupid forms. I even went to the their offices personally with fully filled out forms together with other documentation needed to prove I was on income support etc.

 

I now have bailiffs threatening me etc etc. (well over 100 letters !!!!)

 

I would also add a variation of the same thing has happened in my new location.

 

I was unable to fill out the forms in time. I appealed giving really, really good reasons why I eventually filled the forms out a bit later than their silly deadline.

 

The appeal was turned down on the grounds the reasons were not 'adequate' (only being in a coma in hospital would have been a more compelling reason for not filling out the forms ).

 

I was repeatedly told by this council I could do nothing else about it, which I have now discovered to be another lie.

 

But I have also discovered that a deadline of a maximum of thirteen months is set by the DWP and the sanctimonious council appeals decision maker tells me how sorry he feels for people like me with similar cases ( and he quotes another person who had a life threatening illness preventing him from filling out his forms in time) but the DWP 'rules' stating this deadline mean that he cannot allow any council tax benefit that people were legally entitled to to be paid.

 

It happens because people like me fail to fill in the 'renewal forms' quickly enough to meet the astonishingly and meaninglessly tight 'deadlines' which seem to be deliberately created so that 'problems' like this are manufactured to both act as a 'job creation scheme' for hordes of mindlessly nasty bureaucrats and to provide excuses to falsely extort money from people.

 

I simply have no idea what to do about all this !

 

I am a single parent trying to bring a child up on state benefits on which it is impossible to make ends meet. My whole life is now being taken over by ludicrous problems like this, preventing me from trying to get back to work - something I am completely desperate to do !

Edited June 1, 2009 by rocket1

[Trudy B]

Hi Rocket 1

 

First of all you should put all your complaints in writing to your council – you could send it addressed to the head of the council whoever that is - it will be on thier website. Always put everything in writing and keep a copy safe.

 

Also take a look at this site - Local Government Ombudsman. You can complain to once you have followed the council’s internal complaints procedures and are getting nowhere.

 

http://www.lgo.org.uk/complaints-about-council-tax/

 

From the website ;-

 

How do I complain?

 

• You should normally complain to the council first. Councils often have more than one stage in their complaints procedure and you will usually have to complete all stages before we will look at your complaint.
  
• Then, if you are unhappy with the outcome, or the council is taking too long to look into the matter – we think 12 weeks is reasonable – you can complain to us.
  
• You should normally make your complaint to us within 12 months of realising that the council has done something wrong.
  
• To complain to the Ombudsman phone our Advice Team on 0300 061 0614 (8.30am to 5.00pm, Mondays to Fridays). You will be able to discuss your complaint with one of our advisers. You can text us on 0762 480 4323.
  
• You can complete an online complaint form at www.lgo.org.uk/making-a-complaint, or you can email us at [email protected].
  

If you consider my complaint what will the Ombudsman look for?

 

 

 

We consider whether the council has done something wrong in the way it went about dealing with your council tax account which has caused you problems. Some of the issues we can look at are if the council:

• failed to give you information you should have (such as what band your property is in or your right of appeal to a valuation tribunal);
  
• failed to act on information you provided (especially where this affects your liability for council tax or your entitlement to discounts or exemptions);
  
• delayed in dealing with disputes;
  
• made mistakes in dealing with your payments such as failing to credit them to your account, allocating them to the wrong account, or failing to pay in council tax benefit that has been awarded;
  
• continued to take recovery action against you when it shouldn’t, such as when you have already paid off the debt, or you are keeping to an agreed arrangement to pay the debt by standing order or direct debit;
  
• failed to pass on important information to the bailiffs, such as that you have cleared your arrears; or
  
• delayed unreasonably in dealing with council tax benefit claims.
  

We can also look at complaints about bailiffs acting on behalf of the council, for example if they behave unreasonably or make unreasonable charges.

What happens if the Ombudsman finds that the council was at fault?

 

 

 

We cannot decide whether you are liable to pay council tax or whether you are entitled to exemptions or discounts. But, if we find that something has gone wrong in the way the council dealt with your council tax account we can ask it to:

• take action to put the matter right, such as to correct mistakes on council tax records and issue the right bills and demands;
  
• ensure that payments you have made or council tax benefit awarded are properly paid into your account;
  
• deal with your correspondence or appeal; or
  
• withdraw a summons or bailiffs and waive costs where appropriate
  
• pay compensation. Whether we ask for compensation and the amount we recommend will depend on how you have been affected by what has gone wrong, for example whether you have received any unnecessary summonses, liability orders or bailiffs visits as a result of the council’s errors.
  
• Where we find fault with the council’s procedures we will often recommend that the council makes changes so that the same problem does not occur again in the future.
  

I hope this helps

 

Regards

 

T

[rocket1]

Thanks Trudy B. At least you have gtiven me somewhere to start. I will follow your advice and report back

[hallowitch]

go see your M.P. take the tape recording with you and ask if he happy for his constituents to be treated like this

 

send a copy to haringey M.P. ask him same questions

 

complain to haringey council about the attitude and the lies of the person you spoke to on the phone

[Trudy B]

You're welcome

 

Here is their complaints proceedure FYI

 

Complaints Procedure: Haringey Council

 

Glad I can help someone else out for a change, everyone on the site has been great in helping me!

 

T

[Aviva]

Ask for a Subject Access Request for all the info between when the renewal form was sent and today. I have attached the form you need to complete.

 

I'm a bit confused to what happened here as you first state that you were told they did not receive the renewal form but later you say you were told the forms were not completed properly.

 

From helping tenants with their HB claims I know that letters should go out either reminding you that you need to renew your claim or explaining that you have not completed the form correctly and which part has the missing incorrect information or stating that your benefit has ceased and the reason why. If they did not do this then having proof will help your case.

 

What was the result of the MPs enquiry? If the MP received information stating that you would get CTB for the period in question or that you would not be persued for the debt then as MPs enquiries of this nature are in writing then their letter and the response would be held on file.

 

You also need to know what happened between when you left the borough and when you recieved the letters last year.

 

Having this info will make it much easier to see what has happened their end and whether they have done everything they should. You can always take the information to the CAB, your MP or solicitor/legal centre if you are entitled to free legal advice.

SAR (on behalf) Haringey Council.doc

[militantconsumer]

Rocket1

 

You have my support on this. I am in total agreement with your analysis of the way that councils are behaving.

 

Well done on obtaining that tape recording. Please keep it forever and make some good use of it. I hope to hear some of it on the radio one day. Or at least YouTube!

 

The arrogance that these people are showing is astonishing, and they seem to be protected by the law most of the time (although I have my doubts about whether these liability order hearings are compliant with Article 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights - the Right to a Fair Trial).

 

Anyway, I also at first became very angry about the Council's behaviour in my case, but am now taking a more patient and careful approach - collection of evidence, working within the regulatory and legal framework, and trying to get the right result. Before getting my own back! (But my case is far simpler than yours, and I am lucky enough to be able to afford the money they are asking for - it's not £10k!).

 

I wish you the best of luck, and I look forward to hearing how it turns out.

[rocket1]

Thanks a lot for the support and help militantconsumer and Aviva and hallowitch. It is really appreciated ! I was beginning to feel that I was being a bit mad or inadequate or something, but I am now realising there are tens of thousands of people being abused by government bureaucrats.

 

I am in such a muddle with disorganised paperwork littering my ‘office’ at home like escaped confetti, that all the documents relating to this are in different places, so I cannot give sensible answers until I sort things out a bit.

 

I had an incredible conversation yesterday with a man I know who used to work for many years for the DWP as some kind of management person. He was directly involved in the process of benefit decisions etc.

 

He told me the system was totally corrupt. He said that DWP staff had instructions from senior management to try and save money by taking every possible opportunity to refuse granting benefits to people who were actually legally entitled to them.

 

A deliberate planned use of bureaucratic techniques was used to obfuscate and confuse and discourage claimants. Claims were often refused without any legal reason and he cited the fact that claims decision makers had their own rubber stamps made up at local stationers with the stamp “REASON NOT REQUIRED’ which they routinely stamped on claims they arbitrarily refused or disallowed.

 

This stamp meant any claim documents folder with it on resulted in any claimant trying to enquire about their benefit claim refusal would simply be told they were not entitled to know the reason why !!!! there would, therefore, be no conversation about it and the claimant would just be told to go away.

 

This whole process of having your own rubber stamp made etc was actually completely illegal but the staff got away with it because of the pure anarchic lack of any management control over staff. There were personal incentives for staff to do this which were explained to me.

 

I am planning to write out in full the conversation I had with him and put it on my blog at MODERN TIMES IN MUDSHIRES.

 

I have also contacted the DWP press office and received information from a ‘spokesperson’ as follows.

 

 

“Hi

*

Hope you are well. Please accept my apologies for the delay in responding to you.

*

A spokesperson for the Tribunals Service said: "The tribunal Rules*of Procedure specify that appeals must be received within 12 months of the original decision. The time limit of one full calendar year allows appellants enough time to submit their case to the tribunal*whilst*also acting as a cut off point to minimise*abuse of the system.

 

The*Tribunal Procedure Committee, which*sets rules for tribunals within the unified structure, set this limit after discussion with judicial colleagues.

 

However, all claims are decided on their individual merit and where there are exceptional circumstances these will be taken into account."

*

I hope this helps.

*

Kindest

*

 

Kind regards

Senior Press Officer 
Tribunals Service

My reply was :

Thank you very much for the information.

 

I have a couple of questions arising which I wondered if your *spokesperson would be kind enough to help me with understanding.*

 

While it is true a notional time limit of a year seems reasonable in normal circumstances, I cannot quite understand what would constitute 'abuse of the system'. In what sort of way would it be abused for instance, if there was no time limit *at all ? Is it possible to cite some examples of what 'abuse' might be ?

 

Then, when your spokesperson says *"all claims are decided on their individual merit and where there are exceptional circumstances these will be taken into account" *I am slightly confused.*

 

This seems to be saying that while a time limit of one year would normally be appropriate in most straightforward cases, that should there be a case *where the appellant has exceeded the normal time limit of one year precisely because there were quite specific circumstances actually preventing or interfering with him from making an appeal within the one year time limit,*(severe illness for example)**that those circumstances of 'individual *merit' would be considered by a Tribunal, taken into account, and an appeal upheld in favour of an*appellant after the expiry of the normal twelve month time limit.

 

Would it be possible for these questions to be answered?

 

And, also, *would it be possible to obtain a copy of the Tribunal Rules of Procedure ?

 

I would be immensely grateful for your help.


*