Council Tax Arrangement

[kimbo78]

Hi, we have been paying £100 per month for last years (07/0 council tax arrears - this was before Christmas last year.

Come April of this year, obviously the new year's bill came out, asking for £98 per month for 08/09. As this was practically doubling our bill, we wrote to the council offering payment of £125 per month to pay for both bills (paing £98 on the current 08/09 bill and taking the remaining £27 from last year's 07/08 bill). The council had asked for a financial summary last year when we agreed the £100 per month for the arrears.

They responded to the offer of £125 for both with a resolute "not acceptable". They said going by our financial summary, they advised us to contact our creditors and reduce their payments by half to claw back the extra £98 needed per month.

We were obviously stressed about this, as creditors are not always easy to deal with. We contacted the creditors and told them the situation and what we needed to do with halving our repayments to them. Some have been ok, others are still grumbling.

However, April's payment could not be met as we had paid our creditors the normal amount that month - May becomes due, and the car that my husband needs to get to work (we live in a village and he works shifts) needed repairs totalling over £400 - some of it we put on credit cards which we can ill afford to do, but what choice did we have?? The rest we had to pull out of our monthly income (I am on Incapacity Benefit so do not bring in a decent amount of money otherwise we wouldn't be in the predicament we are in!).

I wrote to the council to advise them of all this and said we would pay the £100 this month (which we just have ) and endeavour to make the £198 (which we will struggle to do I might add!) at the end of June.

This morning, I receive their response in the post basically saying that if we do not pay off the arrears of £300 approx plus the keep up the current payments on both accounts, then they will take us to court and get an attachment of earnings for last year's bill of £114 - £14 more than we currently pay.

So they are willing for us to not only have our payments doubled from £100 to £198, by refusing our offer of £125, but to add another £14 on top of that!!

We have never been unwilling to pay, but the current arrangement is crippling us - and once you get unforeseen expenses like the car it just proves impossible.

Please can someone give us any advice - I am really at my wits end! I don't know what else to do!

[MilkTrayMan]

Hi Kimbo78!

Council Tax is deemed a priority debt.
If U fail to keep to an agreement to pay it, the Council WILL take U to Court + the WHOLE years Council Tax will be asked for in advance.

The worst case scenario is that U would get a CCJ, which would remain on your Credit Report for the next SIX years, making it extremely difficult for U to obtain any further Credit in the future.
U +/or your husband could also be gaoled for Non-Payment + your husband could possibly lose his job by the conviction.

Your other Creditors can NOT have U gaoled
...Make them wait for their monies.

In the meantime, have U applied for any discount that U MAY be entitled to, with U already Claiming Incapacity Benefit + possibly being on a low income??

Here are some useful links for U to browse through...
Incapacity Benefit - introduction : Directgov - Disabled people
Council Tax : Directgov - Home and community
http://www.local.odpm.gov.uk/finance...xbillguide.pdf
Help with your Council Tax – Council Tax Benefit
Community Legal Service Search
National Debtline England & Wales, for FREE CONFIDENTIAL and INDEPENDENT ADVICE call 0808 808 4000


...

[ss002d6252]

You cannot get a CCJ for council tax arrears however committal is a real possibility if their's a large debt.

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by ss002d6252

You cannot get a CCJ for council tax arrears however committal is a real possibility if their's a large debt.

The Council will apply to the Magistrate Court for what is called a 'Liability Order'.
It is dealt with by the Magisrate Court + NOT the County Court cos the Magistrate Court has the power to inpose imprisonment, whereas the County Court does NOT...
Civil jurisdiction in the Magistrates’ Courts

A judgement will be made by the Magistrate Court, as to whether or not a 'Liability Order' should be made.
The 'Liability Order' will enable the Council to take further action to recover the Council Tax debt, which could include an compulsory 'Attachment of Earnings Order'...
http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/d...e_handbook.pdf

Although not technically a County Court Judgement, any associated Fine imposed in connection with the granting of the 'Liability Order', may be recorded in the Register of Judgements, Orders + Fines...
Judgments

This is in effect the same as having a CCJ (...see #42)...
FAQs

Here is a link to a very brief overview by CAB...
Council tax


...

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Sorry milktrayman but this isn't the case.

The only Order recorded on the Register is a CSA Order.

In any case, a Liability Order is for enforcement purposes giving a council more powers to collect the debt and for the costs involved in bringing the action. That is not a fine.

[rippedoffagain]

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

Sorry milktrayman but this isn't the case.

The only Order recorded on the Register is a CSA Order.

In any case, a Liability Order is for enforcement purposes giving a council more powers to collect the debt and for the costs involved in bringing the action. That is not a fine.

Absolutely correct. No CCJ.

[rippedoffagain]

Originally Posted by kimbo78

Please can someone give us any advice - I am really at my wits end! I don't know what else to do!

As far as I am aware they can't pursue more than one year at a time, they will apply for a liability order for this year 08-09 but cannot enforce until 07-08 is paid. (this was the case in any event)

I would be inclined to keep paying the 07-08, and when you receive the summons for 08-09, you might consider appearing in court and asking the magistrates to allow you to pay 08-09 at a figure you can afford.

The only way you can go to prison is if you stand up in court and refuse to pay.

[ss002d6252]

Originally Posted by rippedoffagain

As far as I am aware they can't pursue more than one year at a time, they will apply for a liability order for this year 08-09 but cannot enforce until 07-08 is paid. (this was the case in any event)

I would be inclined to keep paying the 07-08, and when you receive the summons for 08-09, you might consider appearing in court and asking the magistrates to allow you to pay 08-09 at a figure you can afford.

The only way you can go to prison is if you stand up in court and refuse to pay.

Not quite right - each Liability Order is a court order in its own right but multiple Liability Order's can be pursued together.

Unfortunately you cannot offer a payment arrangement to the magistrate at the summons hearing - that hearing is only to discuss liability and not payment.

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by Weird Al Yankovic

Sorry milktrayman but this isn't the case.

The only Order recorded on the Register is a CSA Order.

In any case, a Liability Order is for enforcement purposes giving a council more powers to collect the debt and for the costs involved in bringing the action. That is not a fine...Nobody said it was a Fine.

Check out the link below entitled 'FAQs' + read the info in #42...
...Are U suggesting that the info referred to on the linked Official Website is wrong??...

Originally Posted by rippedoffagain

Absolutely correct. No CCJ.

As stated to W.A.Y.

Originally Posted by MilkTrayMan

...Although not technically a County Court Judgement, any associated Fine imposed in connection with the granting of the 'Liability Order', may be recorded in the Register of Judgements, Orders + Fines...
Judgments

This is in effect the same as having a CCJ (...see #42)...
FAQs

...

[rippedoffagain]

42. Does the register hold debts in respect of poll tax or council tax?
They are dealt with thorough the magistrates court, not the county courts in England and Wales. As a result if a fine is not paid then it may be registered in Section 3 of the Register.

1. The Registers:

England & Wales The Register is in three sections.

Section 1: County Court Judgments, Administration Orders and Child Support Agency Orders.

Section 2: High Court Judgments registered after 6th April 2006.

Section 3: Fines registered by Local Justice Areas.

Details in sections one and two remain on the Register for six years from the date of judgment/order. Details in section three remain on the Register for a period of five years from the date of conviction.

Sorry MilkTrayMan, but Council Tax arrears does not normally attract a fine. However in some cases a fine may be imposed.

Once a liability order has been granted by the Magistrates Court for non payment of Council Tax, the Council are entitled to request information regarding your income and expenditure. This is sent to you within 5 days of the liability order being granted and is enclosed with a notice advising what will happen if you do not comply.

If requested, you are required by law to provide this information and failure to provide, or providing false information is a criminal offence and if found guilty carries a substantial fine and will result in a criminal record.

Sorry I don't agree with your interpretation, but this does not help the OP.

[Weird Al Yankovic]

Originally Posted by MilkTrayMan

Check out the link below entitled 'FAQs' + read the info in #42...
...Are U suggesting that the info referred to on the linked Official Website is wrong??...

No, but I dispute your interpretation of it.

Your first post stated that the worst case scenario for non payment of CT was that a CCJ would be recorded. We can all read it. This is not the case. Btw, a CCJ issued in the magistrates court???

You then attempted to dress up that inaccuracy in your second post as '...a CCJ is not technically a CCJ...' A backtrack?

You then also suggested that 'any fine in connection with a Liability Order may be recorded on the Register...'

Again, not accurate.

Although one must comply with an earnings questionaire as a result of a Liability Order, the offence of not doing so (thus a fine), is seperate of a Liability Order as these are used for almost all transgressions to determine ability to pay.

In summary, one gets fined for not obeying a court order and not for disobeying a Liability Order.

It is that court order that may be recorded on the Register (S3). There will be no mention of Liability Order, hence, no connection as you stated.

(And it is for 5 years. A CCJ is for 6)



As stated to W.A.Y.

And correct. No CCJ is ever issued for CT non payment. Please understand that a county court issues a county court judgment.







...

Btw, the credit ref agencies don't even record magistrates/local justice fines either.

[MilkTrayMan]

Originally Posted by rippedoffagain

Sorry MilkTrayMan, but Council Tax arrears does not normally attract a fine. However in some cases a fine may be imposed...

Methinks that U contradict yourself rippedoffagain + have stated a similar 'worse case' scenario to myself...

No need to say sorry...U are entitled to your opinion.
The fact that U may disagree with the factual info I have referred to isn't taken personally...

[sequenci]

Originally Posted by MilkTrayMan

The fact that U may disagree with the factual info I have referred to isn't taken personally...[/font]

A Magistrates' court fine currently does not have any affects on your credit file like a CCJ would have