Council Tax summons - no previous warning/bill

[ratherconcerned]

This morning I wandered downstairs to see three identical letters sitting on my doormat, addressed to myself and my two house mates.

I open mine to discover that we have each been issued with a court summons from Tower Hamlets Council for non payment of Council Tax. This comes as a complete shock and surprise to all of us, as we haven't received any bill or warning whatsoever. We moved into the property in November 2007, and paid up for the Council Tax we owed for the 2007/2008 financial year in February this year (£600 or so). At the same time, my house mate sent off a form to request monthly payment of our council tax to avoid being hit by lump sums in future.

Since then, we haven't heard a squeak from the Council until this morning.

As they don't open their repayments office until Monday morning, could anyone give me some advice/reassurance?

They are demanding each of us pay £1.7k immediately (the full annual amount, I believe), and none of us have that money. I'd be more than happy to settle the first two months of this financial year and then pay the rest monthly (as we originally requested). I'm concerned though, as I've read that some councils refuse to negotiate payment by instalments once they've issued a court summons, and that going to court is unavoidable unless you cough up the full amount + costs.

I'm not disputing the debt at all - my problem is that we weren't told in any way, shape or form until this morning's letter. We'd tried to set up monthly payments previously, but received no correspondence in response to the form we sent off. *sigh*

As an aside, is the council tax total per dwelling or per occupant? I previously assumed it was per dwelling, but we've each received a separate summons...this whole matter is very confusing and rather worrying to say the least!

[ratherconcerned]

Having spoken to the lovely jolly people at the Revenue Services Recovery Office, firstly to a normal clerk who answered the call and also to her manager as she was crap, but the out line is as follows:


- The bill is for Council Tax (£1697.89) for 1st April 2008 – 1st April 2009 + £75.00 costs to court.


- The have on record that they sent letters March and April for the first monthly instalments to each of us, and that is sufficient evidence to the court that they have taken appropriate actions to notify us.


- I explained that this was not fair and we have not received such notifications – thus a loop hole in their justification to go to court. But apparently this is not enough to reverse the summons. Asking them to maybe try other methods of communication to advise people to pay a bill is returned with “we don’t have enough resources”, but that is rubbish when we are lumbered with a £75 cost because they’ve taken it to court!

- They claim to have not received the letter asking for monthly instalments and therefore we were still registered as cash credit.


- Therefore we have been presented 2 choices:

o Pay the full amount before the hearing (which my housemates are unwilling to do).

o Arrange to pay the amount, such as monthly, but incur a Liability Order. This also has an extra charge in addition which pays for them going to court on the 9th June, telling them our arrangement and them receiving a liability claim which basically says if we default on our payment they can enforce the authorities to collect payment. - i.e., they'll send around bailiffs.

My house mate arranged to go down the liability order route, as they can't afford to pay it off up front. Is there anything bad about doing this? I'm really unsure of the ins and outs - I *think* this doesn't affect my credit rating, right? Also, what's to say that Tower Hamlets council don't royally screw up again and decide we haven't paid a montly direct debit? Will we get a visit from some bailiffs? Am I getting my knickers in a twist over nothing?

I do intend to write to my councillor over this utter shambles of organisation though. Not that it'll change anything, but I'm just in awe at their utter incompetence. And this is coming from someone who works in the public sector!

[nedjma]

I regret to inform you that a court order does affect your credit rating so does/do late payments. Badly. Your case is probably classes as late over due payment.

I lived at my property for almost a year with out a single solitary bill or demand for council tax payments despite the fact that I repeatedly visited the council requesting to be paid more housing benefits and to ask about council tax. I then recieved a letter saying it was pending court action only to find out it has already been took to the court so the warning was false and fictious and it has now been passed to ROSSENDALES. I need advice about these as they are complete utter thugs, Nothing more or less than loan sharks. They are threatening to illegally remove my landlords furnishings and belongings even though they have copies of my tenancy agreement which clearly states my flat is rented FULLY FURNISHED and they are now illegaly threatening me with illegal use of a locksmith. They have no legal grounds what so ever to enter my property as they have never set a foot in it once and they never ever will so he's talking out his behind there.As bailifs they cannot ever enter my property unless they enter via unlocked doors or windows or if I was stupid enough to allow them in which will never happen in a million years. They are also threatening to try to force their way in as I enter or leave my flat via camping on my doorstep and trying to push in the door. They are threatening a young, single, vunerable, small women here. I have been the victim of various abuse at the hands of men throughout my life both pyshical and sexual and I am very nervous and timid due to this. I suffer very badly from my nerves. I must be able to protect myself from these thugs on these grounds surely. I must be able to get some order of protection or something due to severe bad nerve problems and my history or abuse from men

Also as my flat is rented to me fully furnished they cannot take a thing from it so I must be able to get them stopped from visiting me and my home as they cannot legally take a thing. As for the lock smith I think I would be able to get them charged with criminal damage and force them to pay for all repairs and replacements of locks, doors etc caused by their illegal behaviour? A bailiff has no grounds what so ever to break into my property so long as they have never entered it in the past and can gain no entry to it at any stage? This is true yes? If they illegaly removed my landlords belongings he would surely be able to prosecute them to and have all of his property returned to him? As for the illegal use of a locksmith similarly he would surely be able to prosecute ROSSENDALES and charge them with criminal damage to his property and make them pay for it?

I have been visited once by a ROSSENDALES bailiff. I threatend to have him arrested for breach of the peace, a public order offence and creating a public menance when he was fing and and blinding on my doorstep and making threats (I'l force my way in doors, camp on your doorstep, follow you to bank and steal your money when you make with drawals, climb in your windows, get a locksmith to break into your house). My windows are all fitted with internal window locks, similarly my doors are fitted with internal security locks and bolts. They may not enter. I want an immediate stop put to these people. ADVICE

[Conniff]

My house mate arranged to go down the liability order route, as they can't afford to pay it off up front. Is there anything bad about doing this? I'm really unsure of the ins and outs - I *think* this doesn't affect my credit rating, right? Also, what's to say that Tower Hamlets council don't royally screw up again and decide we haven't paid a montly direct debit? Will we get a visit from some bailiffs? Am I getting my knickers in a twist over nothing?

I regret to inform you that a court order does affect your credit rating so does/do late payments. Badly. Your case is probably classes as late over due payment.

A liability order is just that, a legal note that you are liable to pay. You could say to them that you admit liability, but that will not get them the legal power to use other collection methods.

A Liability order does not get entered onto any credit reference agency record.

[ss002d6252]

'A liability order is just that, a legal note that you are liable to pay. You could say to them that you admit liability, but that will not get them the legal power to use other collection methods.'


No true - it is the granting of the Liability Order that gives the Council the greater powers of recovery - attachments, bailiffs , bankruptcy etc

[Conniff]

Originally Posted by ss002d6252

No true - it is the granting of the Liability Order that gives the Council the greater powers of recovery - attachments, bailiffs , bankruptcy etc

That's what I said.

[nedjma]

I must amend my response here after doing some research today. A liability order obtained by the council WILL NOT affect your credit history or rating. It is other types of bills, your property etc which effect this. Sorry

[Conniff]

No need to be sorry nedjma. It's not a ccj, but you can bet if the council were allowed to enter one they would, they seem to get great enjoyment from being lord and master.

[nedjma]

Yes. I'v noticed this. If you look under threads about council tax and Roessendals bailiffs you will see I have posted a number of threads complaining about Rossendales bullying, intimidatory and illegal actions against me fully sactioned by the council. The council are quite smug about this saying they have a 94% recovery rate through usig thugs and loan sharks which is what Rossendales are. I simply cann't afford to pay my full council tax arrears each month to do so is impossible for me. I just can't do. I have no money. I know the goverment says I must make my full monthly council tax payments this year for each month but **** them. They have no idea what it is like to live on a limited means and I very often cannot even afford to eat

[nedjma]

I meant to say before I can't afford to make my full council tax payments each month for this year. I simply do not earn enough to be able to pay my monthly council tax payments each month as well as my contractual rent and all my other bills. I have arrears from last year. I have offered £5 per month off these. This year I cannot afford to pay my full council tax either. I can only afford to pay between £15 and £20 per month which is not my full yearly council tax obligation. As my tv license payments have decreased this year I have offered to pay the council an extra £5 a month to try to avoid further arrears. I have offered £5 off last years arrears per month. This tiny amount of an extra £10 a year in council tax will cripple me money wise. I am refusing to give into bailiff demands and pay full council tax and arrears when I simply am not in a fincial position to be able to do this. My problem is this will then continue year to year.

[Conniff]

Of course you can afford it, your just being selfish. I bet you had your tv on for an whole hour last night and an extra spoon of beans on your toast.

Anyway, that nice mister Brown says you get £475 per week, I suppose you are buying gas, electric and water out of that, you are mean.

[nedjma]

Lol. I wish. My tv and digi box are currently broken and I can't afford to replace them. I guess I'l have to get my 10 year old tv out of the spare room now. I can't afford any food this month at all. I bought some food for my cat and a little milk but that's all. I guess I was being selfish there to. I should let myself and Osca starve to death.Oh and I suppose by having a telephone in after years of struggling on the dole and not having a phone service I am being selfish to. You know I have no right to have a phone service even though it's one of the reasons I wanted to work again I also wanted to work so I would have more money and not struggle so much. However I am now much worse off working than I was on unemployment benefits. I should have stayed a selfish scrounger on the dole and had my council tax paid for for me. You know us hard working english folk and the poor folk on JSA etc are so selfish. We buy food when we could pay council tax. Lol. Hehehehehe. Oh my pcs moniter is starting to break. Another expense I can't afford to replace

[nedjma]

P.S. I wish I made £475 a week. I would be so much better off then. I could pay my rent out of that in just one weeks pay. I make about £490 a month and £340 a month £85 a week is my rent. It kills me but you know I work. I can cope with just a stingey amount of housing benefits to help me pay my rent. I get about £15 a week to pay my rent off the goverment so generous. I don't have to just pay my rent outa that £15 but the council tax to

[Conniff]

nedjma are you claiming all the benefits you are entitled to, I would say no your not. Surely on that wage you are entitled to council tax relief.

Have a look here and fill in the questions, they will give you an idea of your entitlement to relief:

Council Tax Benefit - Worth Claiming Calculator (Rough Guide Only)

Your way under the £158 per week that give you the right to claim.

[nedjma]

I do not think I am getting the full council tax benefits and housing benefits that I am entitled to claim no. I have challegened the council on this point on numerous occasions as I have been advised by housing benefits staff that I am not getting my full entitlement. I have had various arguements with them which always result in my getting nowhere. However if the stingey ***s where paying me my full entitlement I wouldn't be in this position. I have been advised to seek a solicitors help in getting more benefits out of them

[Spinster]

I hate my council, their all the same...

i got taken to court and i lost, yet i had solid proof... but i remeber a song that said " i fought the law and the law won " and i think the same goes for councils...

i switched to direct debit, it was set up and they failed to take payment aon 3 occasions...

they said i had cancelled the direct debit, but i had 3 letters off my bank saying that i had not cancelled it and it was still live, and the fact is that the council had not mae a single attemp to take the money..

i took these letters of evidence to cort with me and gues what...

you got it... i lost, they didnt want to know, the magistrate refused to look at my letters saying the plain simple fact is that i still owe the money and i failed to pay... but my argument was i never failed to pay, the council failed to take the payment.... but i was fighting a losing battle...

its been a lesson learnt, that youare always wrong...