RichardM v Lloyds/TSB * SETTLED *

[RichardM]

I have bank statements relating to my Lloyds/TSB account dating back from when I opened the account in 1988 until 2001. I've submitted a Data Protection Act request for the last 6 years but the account was inactive from about 2002, only my Lloyds credit card being used (included on the same DPA).

Looking through them, I can identify about £900 in bank penalty charges, primarily £6-£10 charges for exceed my overdraft limit on any given day. I've also got over £900 in what are euphemistically called "service charges" which appear to have been charged on a monthly basis, being applied a month in arrears any time that my account dipped into overdraft during the month in question, which was almost every month. This charge was levied irrespective of whether I was within my agreed overdraft limit or not, so I would often pay £8 for going overdrawn on the day before my pay was submitted, even though I had a £400 overdraft facility.

My question is, do I submit a claim including these "service charges". I have no doubt that Lloyds will try and argue that it was a charge to cover the cost of maintaining my account and not a penalty. Until 1994, these appeared on my staements as "fixed charges" then changed to "service charges" in 1994. Lloyds changed their statements in 2001, to list an activity description for each entry. In August 2001, the activity was shown as a "payment", but from September 2001, the description was changed to a "fee".

I would appreciate some advice on whether including these items would jeopardise any chance of being successful in recovering the other £900.


MOD NOTE: POST MOVED TO NEW THREAD AND RENAMED - PLEASE POST UPDTAES AND FURTHER QUESTIONS TO THIS THREAD

[HD]

I would think that the service charges are because it was one of their super-douper gold or select a/c's that they like selling to us.

You would have agreed to pay a monthly fee for one of these, if it is then sorry you can't claim it back.

[alanfromderby]

The "service charges" are unlikely to be claimable - except in certain circumstances. It depends on the type of account you have and the conditions associated with your overdraft.

If it is a charge made as part of the agreement for having an overdraft - then it cannot be reclaimed as it is a charge for a service. As it has been charged every month, including those months when you were within your limit, then it would tend to suggest that this is the case.

[RichardM]

Prelim letter sent today.

Dear Sir/Madam

I seek refund of charges that you levied from the above account during the time that I banked with you.

I understand that the regime of penalty fees that you applied to my account in relation to returned direct debits and cheques, exceeding overdraft limits etc., were unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. Any penalty applied for breech of a non-negotiated contract may only reflect the actual costs resulting from that breech.
Should you wish to contest that these penalty fees do reflect your true costs and were, therefore, applied lawfully, I would be grateful for a full breakdown of the costs that were incurred due to each of the breeches listed. I draw your attention, however, to the fact that, despite having specifically requested details of any manual intervention in my account, your reply of May 17th to my Subject Access Request made no reference to any such interventions. This must, presumably, have significantly reduced your costs on each occasion.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract that you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner that complies with UK law and operate may account in the same lawful manner.

I am disappointed that you apparently failed to operate my account in this way, since I had always had confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. Sadly, it seems that throughout the long period of my custom with your organisation, this confidence was misplaced.

From a review of statements relating to the account from it’s opening through to closure, I calculate that during the time of my custom, in addition to paying you over £850 solely for proper maintenance of my account, you applied unlawful charges of £977 to my account. It is this excess of £977 that I now seek reimbursement. I attach a list of these charges to this letter. I trust that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter rather than merely respond with standard letters declining this request.

You have until June 30th 2006 to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment. Failure to respond positively within that time-scale may lead to further action being taken in order to recover these unlawful charges.

[RichardM]

Bog standard acknowledgement received today saying they are investigating blah blah blah.....

Funny enough, next door neighbour received the same letter word for word this morning. I'm running both claims so I'll be able to compare how Lloyds deals with both cases.

[RichardM]

Standard template letter received this morning as in:-

Lloyds Bank - The Template Response Letters

LBA will be in the post tomorrow morning.

[RichardM]

Dear Ms Horton
Thank you for your response of June 22nd to my request for refund of bank charges.

I am sorry to learn that you are unable to agree with my request to refund charges. However, I note that you fail to justify that refusal by providing a full break down of the costs incurred as I had specifically requested in my letter of 6th June 2006.

Whilst you maintain that you are entitled to set charges to cover additional work following a breach of the accounts terms and conditions, the law states that you may only penalise the customer a sum equal to the cost of that breach to yourselves. The Office of Fair Trading has already ruled that your charges in no way reflect the true cost to the banks when dealing with such breaches of contract and are, therefore, unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

You appear to place great emphasis on me, as a customer, abiding by the terms and conditions laid down in our agreement. I would, however, remind you that the bank also had obligations placed upon it by the same agreement. Most notably, there was an implied condition of that you (the bank) would conduct your business in a lawful manner, which is compliant with UK law.

Clearly, in view of the ruling of the Office of Fair Trading, there is some doubt as to whether you did conduct your business in a lawful manner. Only by providing evidence as to your actual costs in relation to the charges levied on my account will you be able to remove this doubt.

In the interests of fairness, I am prepared to offer a second chance for you to re-exam your position in relation to my request for refund of charges of £977 as listed in my correspondence of June 6th and repeated here for your information. I will allow you a further 14 days in order to reconsider my case.

Should agreement with my request for full reimbursement not be forthcoming by Wednesday July 12 2006, I shall commence a claim through the Courts for that amount plus interest and costs without further notice.

Yours sincerely

[reload]

Sounds like you've got it all under control

[adamski]

What a fantastic letter well done i only hope they read although i doubt it.
Consumer Power!!!!!!!
Regards
adamski

[RichardM]

Had a reply back today from a Danny Furlan (another assistant manager) declining my claim and telling me to take it to the FOS if I'm not satisfied. Will wait a few days before submitting the claim forms to the County Court.

Glad they have turned it down really, as the interest alone is about £700.

[RichardM]

According to MCOL, Lloyds have now filed a defence for the claim. This will be interesting as all of the charges bar one extend back more than 6 years. Will they try and defend under the Statute of limitations Act, or file a standard defence?

[RichardM]

Bankfodder pointed out that I made a major mistake when I submitted my claim. That notwithstanding, I have come to an agreement with Lloyds which was mutually acceptable to both parties. 'Nuf said.