Lloyds victory in Birmingham - in perspective

[Pliny the Penuriosus]

Spot on M

Even the senior judges are now saying it's become a lottery & what is needed is a precedent setting test case.

I wonder how long that chocolate teapot known as the OFT will be able to ignore their remarks.

[elsinore]

This should cheer you all up!

BBC NEWS | Business | Customers win back bank charges

Els

[reverend1010]

my court date is in two weeks and im becoming more and more worried after reading these posts. what are the chances of me actually having to make court

[C&D]

That certainly cheered me up elsinore - 200 cases in one day, how crazy!

Thanks, I'm feeling a lot more positive for the people I am currently helping claim their charges back.

[TECHSPEC]

Originally Posted by reverend1010

my court date is in two weeks and im becoming more and more worried after reading these posts. what are the chances of me actually having to make court

Personally, i would contact the banks solicitors nearer the time, to see if they plan to make an offer.

It appears that the cases that have got to court, have been due to the banks losing track of cases, after being overwhelmed. In fact, the first case that Lloyds won in court, was a fluke, as they had intended making an offer, but forgot.

I was handling two of my friends cases recently, and after hearing nothing from their banks, and having their letters ignored, i told them to ring them before we goto court. Both were offered the full amount on the phone.

[JonCris]

Yes Tech but where they paid?

[TECHSPEC]

Originally Posted by JonCris

Yes Tech but where they paid?

One got his Friday, and by the sound of it as spent half already. He was given £1875, inc interest.

Not spoke to the other, but offer was followed up in writing, and returned last week. He was offered £1500, with no interest.

[Vital Spark]

Elsinore, you cannot know how much it meant for me to read that posting of yours with it's encouraging link.

THANK YOU!

[TideTurner]

Originally Posted by Vital Spark

Elsinore, you cannot know how much it meant for me to read that posting of yours with it's encouraging link.

THANK YOU!

Elisnore, Spark,

There will be plenty more, you can guarantee that if the banks were ever right, this would have been stomped on 18 months ago.

The only problem is how to let a rat out of a corner without coming out biting.

The obvious solution would be to analyse the banks accounts and ask them to voluntarily repay anything unfair.

As if that will happen.

Tide

[C&D]

Techspec - Which banks were the people with that phoned the solicitor and got offers? My Nan has a prelim court date of 6th July and I am wondering whether its worth her phoning before hand..

Thanks.

C

[TECHSPEC]

Originally Posted by C&D

Techspec - Which banks were the people with that phoned the solicitor and got offers? My Nan has a prelim court date of 6th July and I am wondering whether its worth her phoning before hand..

Thanks.

C

Both NatWest, but i got the idea off this site, and Martin's site, after reading of people's success with other banks.

If you read the thread of Kevin, who first lost in court, he wondered if he should ring the other side, but was not advised to.

It turns out that they may have forgot to make an offer, so that phone call could have made the difference.

[C&D]

Thanks Techspec... will definately give them a call.. Do you think we should call before the prelim or wait until the 'actual' court date?

C

[Kevboy_telford]

thanks Techspec :o
Hopefully people will now ring just beforehand and stop them getting to court

[Gez]

Originally Posted by Kevboy_telford

thanks Techspec :o
Hopefully people will now ring just beforehand and stop them getting to court

Ideally people will have learned from your case, prepare themselves well & hope that they do make it to court and get a judgement that totally contradicts yours.

[reverend1010]

Ive got a case against lloyds for 2500, very nervous now. just waiting for a court date, can i obtain a copy of my origional contract from the bank? am i in my rights to do this???

[Dusary]

Dear Reverend 1010,

Have you started your own thread?

[Kenny Haymes]

Originally Posted by reverend1010

Ive got a case against lloyds for 2500, very nervous now. just waiting for a court date, can i obtain a copy of my origional contract from the bank? am i in my rights to do this???

It is not in the interests of the banks to provide you with evidence which would, in all probability, be the equivalent of 'litigation suicide' ! The banks will of course have them - somewhere - and, if it 'suited their case' in a particular scenario they would undoubtedly produce them.

Any cases without T&Cs being submitted as evidence on behalf of the claimant customer - should be considered as vulnerable - and T&C evidence should be sought as a matter of priority - see the various appropriate T&C sections on this website.

You may also wish to ask for your 'original' T&Cs, and see what happens - for your information, please also see also the following extract re 'Suppression of Documents' The Theft Act 1968 -

THE THEFT ACT 1968
(extract from Vol. 12 Halsbury's All England Statutes)

Section 15 - Obtaining property by deception

A person who by any deception dishonestly obtains property belonging to another, with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it, shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years.

For the purposes of this section a person is to be treated as obtaining property if he obtains ownership, possession or control of it, and "obtain" includes obtaining for another or enabling another to obtain or retain.

For the purposes of this section "deception" means any deception (whether deliberate or reckless) by word or conduct as to fact or as to law, including a deception as to the present intentions of the person using the deception or any other person.


Section 16 - Obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception

(1) A person who by any deception dishonestly obtains for himself or another any pecuniary advantage shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years.


Section 17 - False Accounting.

Where a person dishonestly, with a view to gain for himself or another with intent to cause loss to another :- ·

Destroys, defaces, conceals or falsifies any account or any record or document made or required for any accounting purpose; or ·

in furnishing information for any purpose produces or makes use of any account, or any such record or document as aforesaid, which to his knowledge is or may be misleading, false, deceptive in a material particular -

he shall upon conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding seven years.

For the purposes of this section, a person who makes or concurs in making in an account or other document an entry which is or may be misleading, false or deceptive in a material particular or who omits or concurs in omitting a particular from an account or other document is to be treated as falsifying the account or document.

Section 20 - Suppression etc. of documents

A person who dishonestly, with a view to gain for himself or another with intent to cause to another, destroys, defaces or conceals any valuable security, any Will or testamentary document or any original document of or belonging to, or filed or deposited in any court of justice or any government department shall on conviction on indictment be liable to
imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years.

A person who dishonestly, with a view to gain for himself or another or with intent to cause loss to another by any deception procures the execution of a valuable security shall on conviction on indictment be liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 7 years and this subsection shall apply in relation to the making, acceptance, endorsement, alteration, cancellation or destruction in whole or in part of a valuable security, and in relation to the signing of any paper or other material (document?) in order that it may be made or converted into, or used or dealt with as, a valuable security, as if that were the execution of a valuable security.

For the purposes of this section "deception" has the same meaning as in section 15 of this Act, and "valuable" means any document creating, or authorising the payment of money or delivery of any property, or evidencing the creation of, transfer, surrender or release of any such right, or the payment of money or delivery of any property, or the satisfaction of any obligation.

_________________________ _________________________ _______

If you are denied a copy of your 'original' T&Cs - you may like to follow up with a further request and also quoting from the above extract - it may assist them in reaching an early decision as to your case & a refund ??

It also shows how 'essential' it is to keep ALL copies of ALL documents - a lever arch file with 10 tab index will only cost £3.00 max from any popular stationery outlet - and it would have saved many claimants a lot of angst if they had kept one from the outset (of any account) with all their T&Cs & statements in on place !

Good luck !