No agreement & Lloyds still issuing defaults

[Longwaydown]

Back in January this year, I CCA'd Lloyds for a credit card from 1999. No agreement of any sort has been forthcoming and the account has been in dispute since 26th January.

At the beginning of last month, I'd put some money into my Lloyds current acount to pay for the loan agreement which is enforceable. The day the loan was due out, Lloyds Credit card took the money, meaning the loan payment bounced. I wrote to LLoyds demanding they reverse the payment as the account was in dispute. I know banks are allowed to excersize "set off" but they can only do so when there is a confirmed debt.

Needless to say, I've heard nothing from them. At the same time, I lodged a complaint with the FOS. They have written back to say they are experiencing very high volumes of enquiries and will respond when they can - not holding too many hopes there!

Despite me sending letters asking them to stop processing data, the continue to do so. I have now received a 2nd default notice and three overdue payments have been recorded on my credit file. The last letter I received on 2nd April just said they are still looking into my complaing.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do next?

Thanks in advance.

[Longwaydown]

Things have moved on a bit now - have received a letter from Sechiari Clark & Mitchell formally demanding full payment within 14 days or court proceedings may be instigated. It's a standard letter but I need to know what to do next.

Do I write to SCaM with a potted history? and is it now worth doing an Subject Access Request?

Cheers.

[Jon7]

Hi, did you send account in dispute letter?

[Longwaydown]

Hi Jon

The account in dispute letter was sent to Lloyds in January this year, as yet, I haven't sent anything to SCaM.

[patrickq1]

tell scam SEE YOU IN COURT you have done everything correctly upto now the breach has been the banks as they had been iformed of account in dispute ,also keep on top of the FOS asking they look urgently at your request as they have made further defaults on this disputed account
patrickq1

[Longwaydown]

I have today received a letter from Lloyds with what they claim is a copy of the original agreement, which has been updated with the current financial profile of the account, a copy of the current terms and conditions and a signed statement of the account.

It is an agreement, not an application form as many other have had, but it is not dated and shows my current address. It does not show an APR and the rate of interest shown is the current one.

In their letter, they say that there is no requirement under section 78 to provide a copy of the original signed agreement and that they have satisfied their obligation to supply me with a copy of an executed agreement. I'll try to post a copy of what they've sent me later today.

In the meantime, any help would be much appreciated.

Cheers

LWD.

[Longwaydown]

Ok, I've managed to scan the letters and what Lloyds claim are the agreements - anyone care to comment?

I've today put in an Subject Access Request, but I need some advice as to what my next move is.

Cheers

LWD.

[Enron]

I would guess that they are sending you the current Terms & Conditions, I noticed it states that the APR is listed in your original agreement of which you don't have a copy.

Me thinks they are trying it on, as previously they were supplying copies of the original executed agreement if they had them.... if they dont have them, looks like they are trying to fob you off with another document.

The FOS are about as useful as a chocolate teapot on this issue, I know because I went through the complaint process with them over a similar circumstance where Citi were sending out current Terms & Conditions because they had something to hide (in that instance they only have a copy of one side of the executed agreement).

My suggestion would be to get your local trading standards department involved, write to your MP as this is a document you are legally entitled to - sure they cant exclude certain information but not send you an entirely different document under s78(1).

It might be worth considerring doing a CPR request for a copy of the executed agreement through the courts - at least that way you will know for sure if they have a copy of it or not.

[Longwaydown]

Thanks for the advice Enron. Should the Subject Access Report have the same effect as a CPR request in producing a copy of the original agreement?

[Longwaydown]

I've sent off my Subject Access Request letter but what should I do in the meantime? The only CPR letter templates I can see relate to court proceedings and Lloyds are back on the phone again.

Is it worth responding to their CCA letter (above) even though they say correspondence will not be entered into?

I'm also presuming that they can start to process data again now they have complied with the CCA request? Or does my account in dispute letter still prevent them from doing that?

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm not clear on everything and that concerns me!

Cheers
LWD.

[Longwaydown]

Bump - anyone?

[Longwaydown]

New letter today from MHA collections saying I need to pay them immediately today or SC&M may take legal proceedings against me.

As Enron pointed out, the stuff they sent me refers to an original agreement, which they haven't sent me. I've sent a letter to Lloyds saying the s78 CCA request has not been complied with as they are obliged to send me copies of any document referred to and this has not happened, therefore I consider the account to still be in dispute.

I think I'll write to MHA putting them in the picture - any advice?

[Enron]

If you have any DCAs hassling you I would either mention to them over the phone or in writing that the account is in dispute which should halt them if they have any sense.

From the point of view of what you have received make a complaint to the Office Of Fair Trading over what you have received.

It may also be an idea to get your local Trading Standards involved, you are legally entitled to a copy of the original executed agreement - from which Lloyds would be entitled to exclude a number of things including your signature, name/address, date of signature - but aside from that it has to be an exact copy of the contents at least, not an entirely different document. If they are worth their salt they should look into this for you.

Looks like that banks are playing dirty, but thats not surprising, Martin Lewis said the truest thing that I ever heard - Banks are not your friends.

I would be tempted to open an account with a bank that you do not have a credit card/loan with (no overdraft), and pay your earnings etc into that - at least they can't offset again.

And complain to Lloyds, it might be worth going into your branch and dealing with this face to face.....

[Longwaydown]

My thoughts exactly - I opened a different account as soon as I started this action - I don't trust lloyds an inch.

On a different note, I opened a trust account for my daughter when she was born with the Brittania - on the advice of Martin & the MSE website. Now I understand they are merging with the Co-Op!

I have a dispute with the Co-Op concerning a credit card that they have written to me confirming they can't supply a copy of the original agreement! My fear is they will employ the same dirty tricks as LLoyds and set-off because of the connection.

I'll think about a complaint to the OFT - opinion seems to be that the FOS don't have much in the way of teeth!

[johnnymitch]

Hi longwaydown ,

I don't often pop in here ( I'm usually to be found harassing HSBC )

But thought I'd let you know that OFT say on their website :

Contact us

The OFT cannot provide advice or assistance to individual consumers or traders.
Before you contact us

We receive lots of common enquiries. For answers to these, please see the FAQs section. For consumer advice, information on specific consumer rights or to make a consumer complaint against a trader, please call the Consumer Direct advice service on 08454 04 05 06 or visit the Consumer Direct website.
Telephone
For consumer advice, information on specific consumer rights and to make a consumer complaint against a trader please contact Consumer Direct on 08454 04 05 06.
For all enquiries, guidance on the work of OFT and to report anti-competitive or other behaviour by a trader or traders, please contact the OFT Enquiries and Reporting Centre on 08457 22 44 99. Please be aware that OFT cannot provide advice or assistance to individual consumers or traders.

So they're about as much use as FOS if it comes to that - except I think they probably collate all the complaints they get for one trader from Consumer Direct .

On the Trust Account angle , I would say they are sacrosanct from plundering , especially if it's not in your name ..... but you never know these days - banks have become more depraved over the last few years and not a lot is beyond them when it comes to skullduggery ...

[Longwaydown]

Received another letter from Lloyds saying they consider that they have discharged their obligations under S77/78 CCA and that is their final answer. I've had a letter from another department dealing with my Subject Access Request saying they'll get back to me by 12th July.

Do I sit tight & wait for the Subject Access Request to see what they have? I'm loathed to go down the CPR route as I don't want to initiate proceedings and currently I don't have the time!

[johnnymitch]

They would like it to be their final answer , but it can't be LWD , - they've still got to produce the documents with your Subject Access Request .

Is 12th July within the 40 days limit for them to comply with your Subject Access Request ? If not I suppose the 12 july isn't far off........ but make sure they give you everything you want - if they don't , come back and we'll sort something out .....
I can understand you being reluctant to go down the CPR route , but sometimes it's necessary to force them to say whether or not they have the agreement you're looking for .........

[Longwaydown]

Thanks Johnny - 40 days is up on 12th, so I think I'll sit tight and see what they have. I can't imagine anything else will be quicker!

[johnnymitch]

Hi lwd ,

Any developments ?

[Longwaydown]

Hi Johnny

Funny you should post that, I've received some info from the Subject Access Request - just waiting for the statements. What did turn up was an agreement dated 2004 which needs looking at - they should appear below:





MHA have been on the phone a few times - I've ignored them to date, but need to know whether I've still got a case!

Cheers

LWD