Lloyds/Conkers/Hardship Claim

[Misscynical]

Advice welcomed. I handed by bank charges claim against Lloyds to Conkers last year to deal with but before anything was done by them, all the claims were put on hold. I am now on the verge of bankruptcy and with two dependents I wondered if 'hardship' would apply so that I can make a claim now. I also have a loan with Lloyds and although I'm not in arrears having had a repayment holiday this month, I can't afford to pay next month's payment. Any suggestions please?

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[Mr lex]

Hi Misscynical,

Did you get as far as claiming at court against Lloyds ? It is important that you get your claim to the court stage. Remember only a court can 'stay' your claim.

Have a look here for a letter and spreadsheet for Hardship.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ed-claims.html

If they won't allow hardship, you may have to go to court to get the stay lifted, we can look at that again when they reply.

Lex

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[Misscynical]

Hi Lex

Thanks for reply. You might've noticed that I've had a name change

I have just telephoned Conkers to ask what stage my claims got to and as far as I can make out they only had my papers in July last year just 10 days before the cases were put on hold. All Conkers have is an acknowledgment from my banks that Conkers were dealing with the claims on my behalf.

I am now emailing Conkers for the return of all my paperwork - apparently all originals have been destroyed so they are sending me copies of everything scanned on to their system.

I think I may have sent Lloyds an LBA on my main current account before instructing Conkers but there hasn't been any court involvement todate.

Would appreciate some help in next steps once I receive the bumf back from Conkers. Cheers, L

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[Misscynical]

With regard to the Hardship claim, I am living on tax credits, disability allowance and maintenance for my children. I have been using my creditcards to withdraw cash to use for daily necessities and also to fund my bank account. The cards are up to their limits so this is no longer an option. I had a free 15 mins with a solicitor who has mentioned the possibility of bankruptcy as I can no longer service my debts. I am getting monthly charges of around £100 per month which is in itself a killer!

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[Mr lex]

Hi Misscynical

I am now emailing Conkers for the return of all my paperwork - apparently all originals have been destroyed so they are sending me copies of everything scanned on to their system.

Thats a good start !!

I think I may have sent Lloyds an LBA on my main current account before instructing Conkers but there hasn't been any court involvement todate.

OK, I think you should start at the begining. Do you have all your statements? If so use the spreadsheet here to work out your charges :-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...eadsheets.html

Remember you can go back six years.

If not, you need to send this letter to Lloyds :-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ction-act.html

It's called a S.A.R. and your asking for all the information they hold on you and your accounts.

Once you have this information along with what Conkers send back, we will know how to approch the Hardship case. I think you have a very good chance of getting this though.

Hope this helps, get back as soon as you have some more Info.

Lex

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[Misscynical]

Hey Mr Lex, thanks for lightening response!

I had 6 years worth of statements to May 2007. Can I use these when I get them back or if I start from scratch now, should the statements be from now going back 6 years?

I did pay £10 to get statements for each of my accounts. When I phoned the first time they were very good and set me a printout on my main account of all charges for returned DD's, interest and other various charges and I used the spreadsheet for this.

However... when I requested the details on the other 3 accounts, in one hit 60+ envelopes hit my doormat one morning and it was a nightmare trying to sort the statements into three piles and date order them. I rang to complain as some statements were duplicated and some were missing! Were they interested?? Of course not! This is why I sent them off to Conkers for them to deal with it all.

I found it a bit mind boggling when faced with trying to find out what the various interest rates were being charged for overdrafts over the years and then the rates for going over the overdrafts! Do I need to worry about rates etc, or just include the amounts they charged me?

I have a NatWest Account, shall I Subject Access Request them straightaway as nothing was done on that account at all?

Thanks for input, support helps keep my head above water

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[MARTIN3030]

You will need to work out the charges,draw up a schedule and send in a request.
Make it clear that you consider your case falls within the hardship criteria.
It will save time to fill out the income expenditure sheet available from here.
The letter that goes with this can be included.You can claim using the statements you have now.

My understanding is that your request will then be sent to the Andover offices where hardship cases are being looked at.

You should get an acknowledgement within 10 days.



See what they come back with,if it looks as though they are not going to deal with your case under the waiver,then you can send a LBA at that point and file a claim.
You could send a LBA now in fact,but its better to use the 28 day suggested pre action protocol before issuing a claim.
Your circumstances may allow full fee remission for a claim.
If you need further help just ask.

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

	FSA Waiver The FSA has granted a waiver to the finance industry in respect of bank charges claims. The waiver has been in place since July 2007 and will continue until the OFT test case is decided. The OFT test case will be heard by the House of Lords in June 2009. We are likley to get a decision before the end of the year. Under FSA rules, banks must normally deal with all complaints within 8 weeks. The FSA waiver has allowed banks to put bank charges claims on hold pending the outcome of the Test case. The FSA waiver is expremely one-sided as it allows banks to put claims on hold but it allows banks to continue levying charges. It also allows banks to continue enforcement action even in relation to disputed bank charges. The FSA waiver has been assisted by a general stay on charges-related County Court claims. You are still permitted to begin a County Court claim for the refund of your charges but your claim will be put on hold pending the outcome of the OFT test case. Despite this, we recommend very strongly that you begin a County Court claim now!! If you are on benefits, you will not have to pay court fees. You should start a County Court claim to recover your money straightaway.

[Misscynical]

Many thanks, Martin. I've just had a look to see what I actually sent Lloyds re. my main current account and see that I sent an LBA on 23 April last year which is all the paper statements I had. I do internet banking and cancelled paper statements after this.

Lloyds then fobbed me off with letters about test case and claims being stayed.

Should I resubmit that paperwork, although I only worked out interest at 8% as I'm not sure how to work out the contractual interest.

I can start from scratch now although my charges will be less since April 2007 than they will in the six years prior to that date - if that makes sense? I got a redundancy payoff in June 2006 which helped me financially until six months ago so charges were less. Sorry if this is confusing, will hopefully become clearer as it all gets broken down

If I should start from scratch now then could I Subject Access Request the bank to get copies of all my statements going back 6 years from today?

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

	What are your rights at work Follow this link to read the review of the Guide to your Rights at work, published by Lawpack

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[MARTIN3030]

I would not worry to much about being out on the 6 years-just get it moving.
Because you abandoned the claim last April-then yes start again.Pity that you dont have all your statements.

[Misscynical]

Here goes! Conkers were quick off the draw and I have back all the paperwork for 4 accounts with Lloyds. I'd like to concentrate on my main current account which has seen the most action! Today I've updated the excel spreadsheets I had from last year with all the charges to 03/11/08. I don't have all my statements and haven't got the stamina to go for contractual interest. Some charges come from Lloyds print-outs which they ran out only outlining charges/excess fees etc.

My mind's a bit hazy and for some reason I have 4 Excel documents from when I intially started the claim last year:

(1) Bank Charges (07/12/01-03/11/08- need to delete some months here to make it 6 years) but no 8% interest claimed and no Overdraft Interest charges included. (£2232.5

(2) Just Overdraft Interest with no 8% claimed. (07/12/01-03/11/08- need to delete some months here to make it 6 years) (£285.74)

(3) All Bank Charges (07/12/01-03/11/08- need to delete some months here to make it 6 years) including 8% interest claimed and Overdraft Interest charages included. (£3258.31)

(4) Mish-mash, could probably be deleted but containing all charges including Overdraft Interest in later years and none in early years. Have a column in it claiming 8% interest.

Am I right in thinking that when I approach them for refund (with Hardship claim also) I should just send a schedule of charges without 8% interest added? Should I include Overdraft Interest in this Schedule or not as I'm not sure whether it was for going over Overdraft or just for using Overdraft??

[I'm sorry to be a pain! I have recently CCA'd 8 credit cards (1 left to do, Lloyds), 1 store card (2 left to do). Am batting against the Tax Credit Office for overpayments over 4 years (their error), and am appealing against a Disability Living Allowance now in final stage. A leak in the bathroom has caused much damage and I haven't got the energy to sort out quotes for insurance company! Am wondering whether to bother as I have a court claim for a debt of £9k. A free 30 minute session with a solicitor pointed out that I should start down the bankrupcty route... and just to top it off a few medical conditions I'm now suffering depression - there's a shocker!

Well, enough moaning but I just wanted to let you all know now, for the one and only time, that I just can't cope with a lot more on my plate. My children need a bit of my energy too so I would like to start clearing the decks with the least fuss possible ie... no contractual interest. Any refund of charges is better at the mo than none]

Really appreciate everyones help so far, thank you. Miss C

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Misscynical]

Lex, cheers for the Hardship spreadsheet link. Any idea how to increase the lines under 'Creditors' as it appears there aren't enough!!

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

[Misscynical]

Be still my weary brain! If only I could make a decision last for more than an hour! Does anyone know if it would make a huge difference, given the figures above, if I went for contractual interest? If it's a couple of hundred quid extra I'll leave it but if it could add a good few hundred I might give it a bash. I guess it's only the prep work that would be enhanced so might be worth a shot. I'll also have to S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) Lloyds again to make sure I get a full set of statements this time. I really do need to push my Hardship claim so if I have to wait the 40 days for the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) statements me and the kids will be on the point of starvation! Is it worth it? I really don't want to wear out my welcome but any thoughts, please?

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Mr lex]

Hi MissC,

I would not advise going after contractual interest, I don't know how the others feel, it's a bit of a sticky wicket at the best of times and we need to get this moving.

Re. Spreadsheet, if you click on the last creditor, I think it's column F34, then go to 'insert' and 'insert row' you should be able to add as many columns as you like.

Time scale, As martin has said you can go back to when you first asked for your charges to be returned or even your first S.A.R if you used the one off the site. We can argue the case when we start to talk about a final settlement.

If you S.A.R Lloyds again you may have to wait the 40 days, do you have online banking you can check ? Is it worth it, well that depends one how many charges you think you have incurred. Remember you can add charges up to claiming at court, so it might be worth pushing a hardship claim though A.S.A.P. You are likely to get around 65% as interim payment, you could add the rest when you file at court, ready for when the stays are lifted.

Interest, Your right, you only add the 8% interest when you file at court.

Nat West Account, All these things take time, you might as well get the ball rolling and get that S.A.R sent

And finally, You will never ware out your welcome, we have all been there and will help out as much as we can Your doing great !!!

Good luck,

Lex

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes agree completely with above.

[Misscynical]

Great guys, thank u very much.

Do I include Overdraft Interest on a separate sheet as per my Schedule from last year?

Regarding the Hardship case, do I send the the Schedule with the Hardship Letter and Hardship Spreadsheet? Lloyds are going to see that I owe tens of thousands to various credit card co's so I may as well kiss goodbye to my 21 year relationship with them. I also owe them £15k on a credit card and £13k on a loan.

First Subject Access Request was in December 2006 and I sent them the letter asking for return of charges on 7 March 2007. My spreadsheets start from 07/12/01 so have nearly 7 years of charges now, is this OK or shall I delete the first year?

Won't take me long to finalise the Hardship case to get in post once some kind soul's answered the above questions, so will ask for a few pointers with view to Court route after.

Should I send Hardship to Andover or do I send to my branch and wait for them to forward it on?

Thanks.......... MissC

	Subject Access Request A Subject Access Request is a demand which you can make to any organisation to disclose any personal information which they hold on you. The right to disclosure of data is provided by the Data Protection Act. There is no time limit. The organisation is obliged to reveal everything they have about you - which you ask for - as far back as you ask for. There are very few exceptions. It does not matter whether the data is held on microfiche, in an archive, on tape, in a cardex system, in sound recordings or in screen notes. Some companies are saying that they do not have to disclose where it would be difficult to do so - "disproportionate effort". This is untrue. Disproportionate effort refers to something else under the Act. If you are seeking bank charges information then you should ask for "all data held on you" and you should make it clear that you want everything as far back as it goes. Do not be put off by excuses. Do not accept being fobbed off. It is not in your bank's interest to make full disclosure to you. This means that it is in your interests to get it. If you have not started gathering your bank charges information yet, then you should start now. There will soon be a big rush once the OFT test case has been settled. Get all of your bank account informtion as far back as possible. At least as far back as 1995. If your bank says that they don't keep data as far back as this, don't accept it. Be persistent. They've got what you need in some form or other.

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Mr lex]

Hi MissC,

Like contractual interest, overdraft interest can be a bit tricky. You can claim the part of the interest on your overdraft that was caused by the charges, but not all of it. It takes a bit of working out, Steven has produced a great thread here :-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...-tutorial.html

It's a good idea to send your S.O.C with your spreadsheet and hardship letter, it will help them to concider any offer they may make.

My spreadsheets start from 07/12/01 so have nearly 7 years of charges now, is this OK or shall I delete the first year?

I would go with the earlist date, That was the time you became aware you were being overchaged, you can always knock it back but you can't add it at the court stage without a bit of trouble and more costs !!

I think Andover is the best bet, it will end up there anyway and might save some time.

Hope this helps,

Lex

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes Andover

Customer Service Centre
Recovery Centre
Charlton Place
Andover
Hampshire
SP10 1RE

Amazingly these are now being forwarded from there to their Collections team !!
But this at least gets the wheels in motion.

Keep us updated.

[Misscynical]

Wow. I have just filled in the hardship spreadsheet and I seem to be minus £935.16 each month, without paying any creditors! When I attach this to the Hardship letter, Lloyds will see that I don't have the funds to repay any of the £13000 loan I still owe to them or the £15,000 credit card I have with them! In December I will have to default with the first payments on the loan and the credit card. From the hardship letter do you think this will trigger Lloyds to chase me for these as well?

Very much appreciate your comments Lex and Martin. I have opened an account with Alliance & Leicester and will transfer all my priority DD's and bits to them (+ income) so that the account is always in credit. I assume that Lloyds will take away my £1k overdraft on the strength of the hardship? I have cancelled all my DD's for credit cards/store cards etc and am intending write to each of the ones I've had genuine CCAs back from with an offer of £1 each

	Hardship By and large the "harship" provision in the FSA waiver is a myth which is intended to create a sense that the banking industry is sufficiently well-intentioned to act fairly towards its customers even though their right of access to the courts has been blocked. In fact there are very few guidelines as to procedure and very little definition of "hardship". One unfortunate spin off is that many people in difficulty get their hopes up and go to considerable lengths to plead hardship to their bank in order to get a refund or partial refund of their bank charges only to be refused. Neither the courts nor the FOS have the power to order a bank to make a charges refund on the basis of hardship. We hear of some people obtaining a partial refund quite easily. Others have obtained money by being very persistent - but mostly we hear that people are refused. Even benefits claimants do not automatically receive hardship refunds. By all means try to get a bank charges refund on the basis of hardship - but don't bank on it!

	Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds?? Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims. You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges. Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges? If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you. Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! Follow this link to see the discussions on this. You might even double th size of your claim.

[Mr lex]

Hi MissyC,

Remember your account with Lloyds is now in dispute.

If they start to get funny about your predicament you might use letter 'A' below :-

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

You are on the right track to open a parachute account, at least this way you can pay the day to day bills.

It will be worth your while to send a CCA (letter 'N' above) to see if these agreements are enforceable.

Lex

	Parachute account "Parachute account" describes a second bank account opened expressly in order to avoid retaliatory action by a customer's usual bank once a bank charges claim had been commenced. The term "parachute account" was first used in this sense by BankFodder on the 22nd February 2006 and has since become part of general usage in this context. "parachute account" is used regularly by Martin Lewis of MoneySavingExpert.com and also by the National press.

[MARTIN3030]

Good progress keep us posted.