Need Advice RE: Interim Charging Order

[flirtytitch]

Hello everyone,

I really hope someone out there can advice me as I/we are very worried!
This is a rather long post..

We have a Northern Rock 'Together' mortgage. This is made up of your standard mortgage part and an unsecured loan part.
Due to difficulties last year we were informed that our case would be taken to court...basically so that the unsecured debt could be added to the general mortgage and so become secured on the property.
We understood this and were told by Northern Rock that it was nothing to worry about....just a formality to secure it...and that we could continue making payments on this part that we had already agreed with Northern Rock.
We did get a court date through which said we didn't need to attend...just contact court to infom then etc.
We did this by phone and in writing.

Thought the matter was all done with as, like said before...was told nothing to worry about, just a formality and we had already agreed payment amounts by then.

Two days ago we recived a letter from Eversheds (company that were acting for Northern Rock) Infoming us that an interim charging order has been granted in our local county court on the 15th Jan. And to please note that a further hearing will take place on 19th March, at the county court.

Here is the transcript of the court paper received with this letter:

On 15 Jan 2007, District Judge ***** considered the application of the claimant ('the judgement creditor'), from which it appears:

a) a judgement or order given on 27 Sept 2006 ordered the defendants ('the judgement debtor') topay money to the judgement creditor:

b)the amount now owing under the judgement or order is £13,573.89 (including any interest and costs): and

c) the judgement debtors are the owner of, or has beneficial interest in the asset described in the schedule below:
and the court orders that

1. The interest of the judgemnet debtors Mr & Mrs **** in the assest described in the schedule below stand charged with payments of £13,573.89 together with any further interest becoming due and the costs of the application.

2. The application will be heard at 2:00pm on 19 Marc 2007 at local country court. When a judge will decide whether the charge created by this order should continue (with or without modification) or should be discharged.

The Schedule

"Our home address"

This has us really worried. What does it mean???

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

[gemspan]

Hi there

I think the best thing to do would be to contact the solicitors in writing advising what you have advised us and ask exactly what is going to happen. Also contact the court to see exactly what went on at the hearing you didnt attend. They will be able to tell you where you stand in law.

Hope this helps
Gemspan

[gemspan]

Also, if the unsecured part of the debt was to become secured, perhaps this is how they secure it. In fact, I am sure it will be how they secure it!!!

If you have started making payments to Northern Rock and are keeping to your side of the arrangement then I wouldnt imagine that you have anything to worry about but you could also go into Northern Rock and ask them exactly to explain what they are doing.

Gemspan

[sequenci]

hello there!

a charging order will secure the debt to your property.

when the ccj was granted, did you have an instalment order? if so was there a default in payments?

it is notoriously difficult to get a charging order stopped, you *could* request for conditions to be attached to the order such as not allowing an order for sale (although these are rare anyway).

some more info to help you out:

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 15 Charging Orders In The County Court

ps - please attend the hearing.

[flirtytitch]

Thanks for the advice guys.
We're even more worried now!

As far as we are aware we have been making the payments in with our mortgage payment. Combined.

Tricky thing is when we came to an agreement with Northern Rock, they had already started the process. Now they said they were happy to accept our payment agreed...backto the court just being a fomality to secure....
Not long after we switched to an interest only mortgage with Northern Rock....idea was to help us get through the next tear or two with the reduced payments.
We have never heard anything about the court situation,so assumed all was fine. Nothing has been sent to us about ccj's?
Also it mentions a court date hearing in Jan....we knew nothing at all about this date.

I know in the past when we have spoken to Northern Rock via the telephone....you get different answers from different people each time you phone etc......

I have a bad feeling now that something is wrong. We seemed to have missed a big something in all in.

I'm wondering now if the payments we have been making are not inclusive of this unsecured debt and we had been misinformed in this area.
God I'm so confused now...

[half ax I]

flirtytitch

I think you may be right in that the payments for unsecured loan haven't been included and so they have gone for a CCJ followed by CO.

I wouldn't have thought it necessary to go for a charging order via the courts in such a case. You say that the loan is with the same company as the mortgage. Normally on deeds of a property it will say that additional charges against a property can only be made either by agreement of owners and the existing charge holders (ie mortgage company that have a first charge on the property) or by order of the court. If the loan is with the mortgage company then you & they can probably agree to the additional charge against the property without a court order and the associated costs of same.

As sequenci has intimated a charging order is usually to secure a debt against a property after obtaining a CCJ. Your transcript suggests that a CCJ was issued on 27 Sept 2006 and that the amount owed was to be paid in full. You should have received all the letters from the court for the CCJ process but you say you haven't and this may help in any defence. It looks like NR are hedging their bets against any future problems. If you are now in a repayment plan on the debt that the CCJ is in respect of then you probably also have a defence against the charging order. You need to clarify with NR what they are doing and why.

It looks as though your initial invite to court which said you didn't need to attend was the initial application. It would have been an opportunity to argue against this approach and suggest alternatives. You do however have the opportunity to attend the next court hearing and present any reason why the order should not be made. There are few reasons why a Judge wouldn't make it permanent. The notice will also probably say you don't have but if you do wnat to then you need to let the court and other party know along with any defence you intend to argue.

Usual process is debtor applies to a court for an interim charging order (without necessarily informing you) and the judge grants an interim order which you are notified of. Judge may add conditions that other owners on the deeds are notified. Any charge applied will only be against the beneficial interest of the debtor which in your case looks like mr & Mrs......

I would agree with seqeunci that it is difficult to get a charging order stopped. I know as I tried it to stop an order being made for beneficial interest of daughters ex partner. Judge said the process has been followed and even if it did have an effect on her so what and also even though other creditors would be disadvantaged they all had the process avaialble to them, ie could apply for charging orders and so on. If you check the link sequenci listed then a list of reasons is there. You could suggest that the payment plan option was in discussion already and is in place and would be appropriate and also if it would have been possible for you and the mortgage company to agree the charge without court action that you have been disadvantaged by the additional and unnecessary additional costs.

Just my thoughts based on the limited information here. I know that you will need to research your options and know what is in your deeds and your mortgage conditions and loan conditions and what has occurred to date in your own situation. Good Luck.

[normanjay]

Hi flirtytitch,

CCJ's and charging orders are hardly nothing to worry about! By the time it becomes a final charging order the costs will probably add quite a bit to your original debt.

Then again, perhaps you were falling so far behind you wouldn't have been in a position to persuade a judge that an interim charging order was unecessary?

You can at least take comfort in knowing that should Northern Rock be granted a final charging order then at least the interest charges will be frozen on that amount from the day of judgement. Also, as sequenci says - an order for sale is rarely granted and as long as your payments are regular and reasonable Northern Rock/Eversheds should take it no further

It is best to attend the hearing. It shows you take the matter seriously and the judge can question you with a view to better understanding your curcumstances and acting accordingly. My hearing resulted in my appeal being dismissed and a final charging order being granted. It was an informal affair, just me and the judge and he was a pleasant enough guy who explained his decision clearly. My defence was pathetic to be honest and I got my just deserts..

I hope my opening para wasn't too alarming! and good luck with the hearing,

[flirtytitch]

Thanks for your replys,

I think on Monday morning we are going to phone Northern Rock and Eversheds.
We need to get a clear view of what has/hasn't been happening. Maybe ask Northern Rock to put what they say in writing as they seem to say one and do another.
I wonder why we have never recieved anything to say we have a ccj though?

My main concern, obviously, is that we would through someway lose our home! I seem to think though...for the amount owed and the fact that it is being repayed....that that is unlikely.
Please tell me I'm right!

Thankyou all again for taking the time to reply.

[FANTASY CHARGES]

Originally Posted by gemspan

Hi there

I think the best thing to do would be to contact the solicitors in writing advising what you have advised us and ask exactly what is going to happen. Also contact the court to see exactly what went on at the hearing you didnt attend. They will be able to tell you where you stand in law.

Hope this helps
Gemspan

do everything recorded delivery !!!! it only cost £1 and get your slip before you post the letter. so you can include the reference number (royal mail trackling ID in case you lose the slip) in the letter

[flirtytitch]

Hi again,
Sorry to be dumb....

But which solicitors did you mean to contact????

[gemspan]

Eversheds! It might be worthwhile phoning them to get the lowdown as well!!!

Good luck
Annie

[flirtytitch]

Thanks Annie x

[sequenci]

Originally Posted by flirtytitch

I wonder why we have never recieved anything to say we have a ccj though?

if this is the case you have a ground for the original judgment to be set aside. this would take the whole thing back to pre-ccj and by doing so the interim charge would have to go too. there wouldn't be anything to stop them filing for another ccj, however.

[flirtytitch]

Originally Posted by sequenci

if this is the case you have a ground for the original judgment to be set aside. this would take the whole thing back to pre-ccj and by doing so the interim charge would have to go too. there wouldn't be anything to stop them filing for another ccj, however.

Hmmm that's food for thought.
Maybe we should look into that....

But like you say....They might file again anyway.

To have it change from unsecured to secured...well we don't really mind.

Who would we contact in regards to never having recived any info on a ccj??

Hubbie phoned Northern Rock today and Eversheds. Apparently the date they have given us is the date when the judge will secure it. If we want to defend this action then we need to attend.

Northern Rock...It seems we are still on a repayment mortgage with them even though we switched to interest only last year! They themselves can't understand the cockup, as they have all the switching details on file etc. They have some manager looking into it all and are going to ring us on Wed.
I'm thinking now...if we have been paying the interest only amount instead of repayment....this could be why an interim charge has come about?
Who knows.....See what happens next.

[sequenci]

Originally Posted by flirtytitch

Hmmm that's food for thought.
Maybe we should look into that....

But like you say....They might file again anyway.

To have it change from unsecured to secured...well we don't really mind.

Who would we contact in regards to never having recived any info on a ccj??

Hubbie phoned Northern Rock today and Eversheds. Apparently the date they have given us is the date when the judge will secure it. If we want to defend this action then we need to attend.

Northern Rock...It seems we are still on a repayment mortgage with them even though we switched to interest only last year! They themselves can't understand the cockup, as they have all the switching details on file etc. They have some manager looking into it all and are going to ring us on Wed.
I'm thinking now...if we have been paying the interest only amount instead of repayment....this could be why an interim charge has come about?
Who knows.....See what happens next.

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice | Factsheet 12 How To Set Aside A Judgment In The County Court

[flirtytitch]

Thanks sequenci ..

Cathy