Solicitors Letter Received

[nannamoon1]

Thanks Gizmo,

I have sent the letter asking for proof etc, & of course recorded

I will keep you informed of any progress, I have the other 2 debts with IJ, whom have wrote back o tell me they have no Agreement, they have been taking my money for 14 years with no agreement, they say in their letter that they have passed the a2 account back to the original creditors (I am of the opinion that these 2 debts were original bought from the creditors, in the letter it mentions that any Correspondence must be made to the creditors.....hang on here they have been taking my money and expect me to just go away....mmm I don't think so....I am just waiting for the 12 + the month. When I contact IJ what is stopping them saying they have no records of these accounts as they have said they are returning them..

Thanks for the advice, I do appreciate it.

[PriorityOne]

Hiya Nanna,

The other debts probably were bought, but they have told you to contact the original creditor because what else are they going to say ? If the 12 days and one month pass without any contact fom the original creditor... I would go after the DCAs for a refund.

[nannamoon1]

Originally Posted by lookinforinfo

Nannamoon, I have amended the letter

Dear Sirs,

Re your claim xxxxx
Thankyou for your letter dated 14th February.

I have asked you to comply with my CCA request. The Act does allow you
not to produce the documents if the debt has been satisfied s77[3]. No such
allowance is noted in the case of an expired ccj.

In any event, it has just come to my attention that I am able to challenge
the contract whether a ccj exists or not, and for that reason I do require
sight of the document.

Yours Faithfully,


The matter that has just come to your attention is the case below where a lady successfully got her debt quashed because the amount of her loan had
been incorrectly entered on her contract. So you do need to see the agreement to ascertain that your agreeement is in order.
McGinn v Grangewood Securities Ltd. [2002] EWCA Civ 522 (23rd April, 2002)

Lookingforinfo

I sent the letter to GPB on 19 Feb and it was signed for on the 20th.

They have not replied, to the letter, now do I pay this months payment as we are not 100% sure if this debt was a CCJ or not.

For the last 14 years I have paid GPB through my bank with a payment book that GPB issue every so often.

14 years ago these DCA/Solicitors always issued payment books, I have just never bothered to change the payment to a S/O.

Of course they have failed to comply with the CCA the 12 days have passed but the one calender month has not expired yet, bearing in mind GPB replied to my CCA request within 48 hours, saying that the debt was a CCJ.

[lookinforinfo]

Nanna, lets assume you don't make this months payment, and there is a ccj
on the account. Big deal, what are they going to do? They can't apply another ccj, nor a default. And as they are now in default, they cannot
pursue you till the default is removed.
The situation is the same if they haven't applied a ccj. Until they furnish you
with the required documents, there is nothing they can do.

[nannamoon1]

Lookingforinfo,

Thanks for all your help, very much appreciated, I just cannot believe that I have been paying these Idiots for 14 years

I have a total of 4 debts from DCA that I have been paying for 14 years, 2 of them are from IJ whom sent me a cheque back for the fee, with a letter saying that they are sending the debt back to the original creditor (Do not believe that for one moment) Just waiting for the 30 days to expire.

The other one is with Credit Security, sent CCA via Recorded Delivery, it was never signed for, I did keep the recorded delivery slip, but I must have mislaid the post office receipt. I have sent another CCA request but this time Special Delivery they signed for that this week.

I will keep you updated, as I will probably need more advice.

My credit file does not show any of these 4 debts, so I have no issue with having to have anything removed.

[lookinforinfo]

Nanna, what a shame this site wasn't in existence all those years ago.
BTW they will have returned the debts, since they will know they cannot produce the documents in time. I wish I knew of the situation with this practice, since it means they have taken your money for all this time but
duck out before the crunch comes. And it may leave the original lender free
to assign the debt-though this time you will know what to do.

[nannamoon1]

Lookinforinfo

I wish this site had been in exsistence all those years ago LOL.

I was very young and petrified of these DCA, Once the 30 days are up could I send a Subject Access Request to IJ even tho they have sent 2 of the debts back tot he original creditor, I would love to know how much I have paid over the years and of course interest I assume, there are charges. Also would IJ have the Subject Access Request data as they have sent the debts back?

A question for you, (how do we know that IJ did not buy the debt) after all DCA will say anything, especially as they have been taking my money with out having the paper work. assuming IJ have sent the debts back to the original creditors, would they have any correspondence relating to the debts LOL.

[ODC]

Subscribing

[lookinforinfo]

IJ would have to keep your data for six years. Not sure that you should
put yourself through the pain of finding out how much you have paid them.
Haven't you given them enough money? And you cannot reclaim the money.
Best just to heave a sigh of relief and move on. Easy to say, I know. More
difficult in practice. Just let the extra money in your pocket give you a warm
glow and may it help to wipe away the bad feelings.

[nannamoon1]

lookingforinfo

I was not looking to claim refund (although I would not mind giving it a go) just thought I may be able to claim back any charges, penalties etc. I do not think I have EVER had a statement from them in fact I know that I haven't.

I am curious as to:

1) Why can't a debtor get a refund, surely if a DCA cannot provide the relevent documents then they have been taking your your money illegally?

Has there been anyone successfully claim a refund from the CAG?

What would happen if a debtor asked for a refund & then went down the usual channels, preliminary, LBA etc....would a judge not award the refund due to there being no credit agreement, and would the judge not award the DCA to pay the charges etc.....

I just cannot get my head around the fact that these Idiots can get away with what they like, when they like. I know my case is perhaps a little unusual due to the debts being 14 years old, but what about these peeps on here that DCA have been taking there money without the relevant documents, it does seem to appear one rule for debtors and another for DCA.

I really would love to challenge a DCA would like to make them squirm, as previously said I was young, niave and vulnerable, when these debt occurred.

[gizmo111]

Originally Posted by lookinforinfo

Nanna, lets assume you don't make this months payment, and there is a ccj
on the account. Big deal, what are they going to do? They can't apply another ccj, nor a default. And as they are now in default, they cannot
pursue you till the default is removed.

They can't apply a CCJ as there is already one - what they can do is enforce the CCJ. There is no default on their part if there is a CCJ the CCJ in itself is proof of the debt, and they do not need to produce agreements to prove this.

The situation is the same if they haven't applied a ccj. Until they furnish you
with the required documents, there is nothing they can do

Not the same at all - if there is a CCJ this is enforceable in its own right. Without a CCJ then there is nothing they can do.

[lookinforinfo]

Gizmo, in both section 77 and 78 of the CCA, it states that should an
executed copy of the agreement not be produced within twelve working days
[plus two more days] the creditor is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. There does not appear to be a rider that carries
on to state that the Act does not apply to an account carrying a ccj.

[gizmo111]

Originally Posted by lookinforinfo

Gizmo, in both section 77 and 78 of the CCA, it states that should an
executed copy of the agreement not be produced within twelve working days
[plus two more days] the creditor is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. There does not appear to be a rider that carries
on to state that the Act does not apply to an account carrying a ccj.

The CCA doesn't apply if the debt is being collected under a CCJ. The CCJ is proof that a debt exists and the CCj can b enforced.
The enforcement action mentioned in the act has already been taken.
It is absolutely pointless asking for any docs once a CCJ has been issued.

[nannamoon1]

Gizmo,

We are not 100% sure that this debt ever went to court, I myself have no paper work, as this debt is 14 years old, IMHO I cannot remember if there ever was a CCJ or not. I did wade through some old papers in the loft and found something that was hand written in a notebook (by myself) that may suggest that there was a CCJ, but apart from that I have a payment book from GPB which I have for the 14 years.

I did ring the County Court when I received GPB response to the CCA request. I was told that there would be no paper work as when they went computerized, everything was destroyed, I was also told they would not keep anything over 6 years old. So no evidence of a CCJ.

GPB have to date not produced any documents to show that the debt was a CCJ.

How can GPB enforce the debt (CCJ) if there is no documents to prove the debt ever went to court, and the court do not have any documents either.

[gizmo111]

How can GPB enforce the debt (CCJ) if there is no documents to prove the debt ever went to court, and the court do not have any documents either.

Simply they can't.
But the point I was making above is that in general the CCA default doesn't apply if a CCJ has already been issued on a debtor, yours is slightly different i nthat it is so old.

[lookinforinfo]

The CCA doesn't apply if the debt is being collected under a CCJ. The CCJ is proof that a debt exists and the CCj can b enforced.

I am obliged to You Gizmo for the explanation. However it is my understanding