Tesco VISA - moral dilemma - sort of....

[Sirensinger]

Hi, would just like to see what others think about this one... I had a Tesco VISA on which the balance I was being chased for was just over £700 including £300-odd of charges. I asked for the CCA and was sent what purported to be a valid one, didn't look too closely at the time as dealing with another 6 cases like this, plus British Gas and Student Loans, and in horrendous financial difficulty.

Had some correspondence with Tesco's, at one point they made an offer I could have done with, but it was 'full and final' so I refused as I thought the principle was important. Recently had success setting aside CCJ from HSBC on grounds of no CCA, which made me take another look at the Tesco one, and now I don't think it complies. At same time, I received letter from a new DCA chasing for Tesco, and noticed they're now chasing only £400, which means Tesco must have knocked off the charges without telling me. Great, I thought!

But then started thinking, well if they don't have a compliant Agreement, I could probably go for getting this debt written off... but should I? On the one hand, I feel the banks are behaving immorally themselves in trying to mislead people that non-compliant documents are compliant, and I think as large commercial organisations they've only got themselves to blame if they don't keep records they know full well they should keep - but equally, it troubles my conscience to behave in the same way. I've always tried to take responsibility for my actions, and my debts are purely due to having been unable to survive without borrowing, having suffered bouts of severe depression when I was unable to work, struggling to get my accounts within their limits yet finding the huge charges made it impossible - I certainly haven't run them up through spending on fripperies! I've had about 5 years of tremendous mental anguish because of my financial situation, to the point of feeling suicidal - and if I were to get some of my debts written off it would ease the stress soooo much....

Is anyone else fighting with their conscience over this? How many of you feel the banks have themselves to blame, and how many feel debtors shouldn't dismiss the part we've played in the matter?

Awaiting your thoughts....

Sirensinger

[djc]

hello sirensinger
when you consider that most debts are banded and passed arround the debt collection industry with little thought as to the moral aspects of this industry other than pure business, and you may include banks and other organisations within this theatre,why worry about them.If you are experiencing difficulties like the banks, shed some of the load, like banks ie, personnel, increased interest charges, unsolicited charges and the like.

take time out and seek great advice here on this website and declutter your mind of negative thought processes.

has that made you feel better it certainly has me.

djc

[tendogs]

Originally Posted by Sirensinger

Hi, would just like to see what others think about this one... I had a Tesco VISA on which the balance I was being chased for was just over £700 including £300-odd of charges. I asked for the CCA and was sent what purported to be a valid one, didn't look too closely at the time as dealing with another 6 cases like this, plus British Gas and Student Loans, and in horrendous financial difficulty.

Had some correspondence with Tesco's, at one point they made an offer I could have done with, but it was 'full and final' so I refused as I thought the principle was important. Recently had success setting aside CCJ from HSBC on grounds of no CCA, which made me take another look at the Tesco one, and now I don't think it complies. At same time, I received letter from a new DCA chasing for Tesco, and noticed they're now chasing only £400, which means Tesco must have knocked off the charges without telling me. Great, I thought!

But then started thinking, well if they don't have a compliant Agreement, I could probably go for getting this debt written off... but should I? On the one hand, I feel the banks are behaving immorally themselves in trying to mislead people that non-compliant documents are compliant, and I think as large commercial organisations they've only got themselves to blame if they don't keep records they know full well they should keep - but equally, it troubles my conscience to behave in the same way. I've always tried to take responsibility for my actions, and my debts are purely due to having been unable to survive without borrowing, having suffered bouts of severe depression when I was unable to work, struggling to get my accounts within their limits yet finding the huge charges made it impossible - I certainly haven't run them up through spending on fripperies! I've had about 5 years of tremendous mental anguish because of my financial situation, to the point of feeling suicidal - and if I were to get some of my debts written off it would ease the stress soooo much....

Is anyone else fighting with their conscience over this? How many of you feel the banks have themselves to blame, and how many feel debtors shouldn't dismiss the part we've played in the matter?

Awaiting your thoughts....

Sirensinger

I’m ambiguous; I know that several members of CAG feel that when the money has been borrowed, and spent, then the debtor has a moral responsibility to repay and I guess I understand that point of view.

My position makes it difficult for me to apply that moral stance, I have been plunged into debt through little fault of my own and when I signed the agreements I was confident I would make the payments and, for many years I did that with no difficulty and so I can say that I had no intention of avoiding paying my debt. I’m not sure that matters to anyone but me but that’s the position.

It’s a mistake, I think, to equate morals with the law. As far as I understand it the consumer credit act 1974 had certain provision deliberately included to protect the consumer. These stipulated the way in which agreements were constructed and the way, and form, in which a creditor approached the act of enforcing repayment. Given that this contract is between the creditor and the consumer it is madness that one party has, in many cases, just not bothered to comply with the statutory instrument, it’s not rocket science after all, get the form right, issue defaults and notices of assignment correctly, keep copies of everything and it’s more or less in the bag.

The fact that they failed so to do is a sign of arrogance and high-handedness. I will do anything, within the law, to protect my home and my family, my creditors will do anything within the law to try and recover their money. Morals are no longer an issue here.

Dogs

[smt37]

My own situation is that I currently owe over £100K. I ended up with twelve credit cards and two loans - all unsecured. It took a lot of stupidity and about 14 years to get that bad and I am still not sure at what point it became serious. Next year I will be in a position to pay it all off. (I've been very lucky in my career). However, when I've got the cash, I'm going to push each and every creditor to the limit like they have done to me.

I'm paying monthly through the CCCS, but I'm taking it all back when I get the cash and going to CCA them all. My NatWest credit card was taken out in 1993 and two MBNA cards in 1995. I'm sure none have the CCA, so for a few months next year, I'm going to have some fun of my own. I'll probably end up paying everything, but I'm going to be in the lucky position of having the ball in my court - the cash to pay and the legal knowledge to wind them up for a few months. Can't wait!

[tendogs]

Good for you, I would relish a progress report.

Dogs

[maz1964]

hiya ive just read the thread, great and yeah something im being stretched to do the right thing too at the moment.

However like Dogs has said, moral and the law are really different. Of course i want to pay my debts but morally i dont agree with the horrible phone calls ive had to deal with early on this year, and only after id been honest to own up to the creditors that i needed their expert help as i was begining to face hardship, been off ill for the past year.

I thought by being proactive and addressing my problems before they escalated to me missing payments, i morally thought i was doing the right thing in requesting their help, it says that on the back of their statements call us if you are facing difficulties!

Well i can only say hand on heart that marks and spencer were the only one that listened and stopped charges and interest from day one.

others are put to shame, mbna, halifax, bos, barclaycard lloyds to name a few

all ive had are constant phone calls, streams of letters that i feel for the tree and inconsistencies in the way they dealt with my concerns and cry for help.

So yes early part of the year, my moral standing was i just want a bit of time to pay a little until i get back to work, Now nearly fighting for the past 8 months, my attitude has changed,

The ones that caused me more grief and problems can go and whistle now, as i now know the law, if they do not produce a valid cca - which legally they should hold, as it s infact a contract, and they cant find it, then, they need to be slapped for not holding my data securely. They have broken my moral contract in not keeping legal documents available.

So my answer is im playing the business game, im requesting what im legally owed to be supplied with , copy of a true and valid cca or see me in court. If no valid CCA then - Morally i could then offer them an amount to get the debt cleared with a low full and final settlement, otherwise off to court we go.

i didnt and still havent shirked my responsibilities but the attitude of the staff and relentless letters have shown me they really dont care - so i now dont care too much about them other then getting rid of the debt one way or another.

So perhaps now im getting better in myself, im no longer frightened of the threats, ive been paying each month, without fail, but now im going to stand up and be counted for myself and my family.

I wish i could be like smt37 and have the money and do what you intend to do, but for the time being its a game of survival for me and now the real battle commences - its going tobe interesting,

sorry to jump on the thread but i wanted to share my side of my journey, so far.

If i hadnt been treated with the contempt ive experienced, i guess i would be happy to pay my bills at the rate i am without any questions asked. BUT i have not been treated well, and now i feel that all creditors would jump to put a charging order on my house if they so wished to do.

Keep happy all and always remember dont let them get you down!

laters ciao MAZ

[smt37]

I promise now that for every pound I save from advice on here I will donate 10p to CAG so others benefit. I hope the DCAs and OCs reading this are happy with that! I guess you could call it 'unfactoring'...

[tendogs]

good for you

[maz1964]

you are a star smt37

look forward to hearing all about it

have a good day everyone ciao MAZ