CIS repudiate Buncefield claim

[Chrissielr]

Ok, the long and the short of it is my mother lives within 2 miles of the Buncefield oil terminal, which blew up last December. Early this year, her buildings insurer, CIS, contacted her to see if she had any problems and at the time she was unaware of anything. CIS reassured Mum that if anything came to light in future she would be covered.

Then May time this year, Mum had shutters fitted on her windows and when the workmen were installing they noticed that seals on the upstairs windows had been damaged and when Mum tried to open them (when the hot weather started) she found she couldn't close them again.

Having knowledge that several of her neighbors had suffered similar problems following the explosion, she duly contacted the insurance company who initially tried to tell her she wasn't covered as she hadn't claimed earlier. Then she was told a claim had been made in December last year. Mum asked what the claim was for, but the person she spoke to couldn't tell her although it now appears most insurers made a claim against t Buncefield in lieu of future claims by their customers.

Anyway, Mum argued her point and eventually CIS agreed to send an expert out to view the damage. The company used were Hutchinsons and the Representative performed a thorough investigation talking my Mum and her builder friend through things as he went. At the end of his visit he confirmed the damage was consistent with implosion damage as he had seen in other properties within the area and that he would be informing CIS of this. He showed them his conclusion on his handheld PDA and stated that much of his work, as a window expert, over the last 8 months involved Buncefield. Naturally Mum breathed a sigh of relief that action would now be taken.

Hence, you can imagine her frustration when yesterday she received a letter from CIS saying that "having taken Hutchinson's report into consideration" they concur that the damage is due to wear and tear and repudiate the claim.

We know the next step is formal complaint and potentially lengthy input from the Financial Ombudsman. However, we would like to know if Mum can demand a copy of the Hutchinson report from CIS by using Data Protection? I am loath for her to approach Hutchinson direct as a) she is not their client and b) they would not want to scupper a lucrative contract with an insurance company.

Any advice/comments you may have would be gratefully received.

[mooreda]

yes you are entitled to a copy of this report if it is what the CIS are relying on to repudiate the claim - this will enable you check for any discrepancies and if appropriate challenge CIS further. I personally don't think CIS are any good and would seriously consider changing insurance companies. Don't give up though - complain to the FOS. It costs the CIS if you go to the FOS - something around £300! They may decide to cave in to avoid the FOS fee.

[Rob S]

I believe you will have to go through the CIS complaints procedure before the FOS will get involved. Your mother will need to write to CIS and find out what their prodecure is and then initiate it and fully exhaust it before involvement of the FOS.

[craigwalton]

I would also consider getting a local window company to do a report on the windows confirming the cause of damage. The money paid for the report would be recoverable should the claim be paid.

[Chrissielr]

Originally Posted by Rob S

I believe you will have to go through the CIS complaints procedure before the FOS will get involved. Your mother will need to write to CIS and find out what their prodecure is and then initiate it and fully exhaust it before involvement of the FOS.

Hi Rob

CIS complaints procedure followed already. Initially they decided it was wear and tear wothout anyone veiwing the windows, so procedure instigated then, which led to Hutchinsons visit.

[Chrissielr]

Originally Posted by craigwalton

I would also consider getting a local window company to do a report on the windows confirming the cause of damage. The money paid for the report would be recoverable should the claim be paid.

Good idea, will look into it.

[un1boy]

Hi there,

I used to work for CIS and left a few weeks ago after 3 years. I know it doesn't help, but my main reason for leaving was their lack of professionaliam and disregard for customer's circumstances. They nearly went bust 18 months ago and had a MASSIVE company and product restructure, so have been wanting to save money in all areas.

For example, when the car insurance product was changed to remove the 'Any Driver' provision, they added 15% to your renewal premiums if you had Any Driver over 25 added 25% to your renewal premium if it included under 25's. The brief was that we were not allowed to tell customers and had to say that the increase of premium represented an increase of the risk and was part of a premium restructure (no written confirmations sent to customers though!) I naturally informed customers of this as the FSA means that companies regulated by them have to be honest and open. I never received any call reviews or feedback, like most others, so it was never picked up. I secretly wanted them to as I would have taken it further because I contacted the FSA and spoke about it and they told me CIS weren't allowed to do it.

Also, when they started the restructure and closed all district offices, no customers were told unless they called. So, even now, 18 months later we had people (mainly the elderly) calling saying that they had walked miles to pay their renewals over the counter. At the time of them being closed, I asked the man who was at the time head of the contact centre (Rob Wooley) why we hadn't written to customers. His response was that it would have cost too much. Oh, and after I challenged him he said, "I meant that 60% of the customer's addresses we hold are incorrect. So, the costs involved in sending people letters that do not live there is not feasible." Again, I challenged him in an open forum in front of 40 other advisers and said that we have to check customer's addresses every time they call as part of authentication, so he's obviously saying that we, as advisers weren't doing our jobs properly. He ignred that and asked for the next question. Rob Wooley was promoted 3 months later to Head of Customer services for the CIS and Co-op bank - that's the way CIS work.

I wasn't afraid of anyone at CIS, no matter how high up the scale they were. This is why I was then bullied by a CSM (a CSM (customer service manager) is one below Rob and this CSM was there at the time I challenged him, and was subsiquently sacked after bullying me! - not related to the bullying though) and my career path was shatterd. Anyway, I'm not trying to say "oh, woe is me" I just want you to see how unprofessional they are.

No one in CIS knows what they are talking about as their is no support or developent from the managers and everyone is just left to thier own devises.

Have you tried writing to the head of general insurance, I've forgotten his name but I will ask one of my ex-colleagues and get back to you.

Needless to say that I have now transferred all generla insurance produts to other providers as the only thing keeping with them was that I could manage my policies and also staff discount.

Hope this helps!

[JonCris]

Hi Un1boy

I'm so pleased to come across your post. I have also in my early years been in the pay of the insurance companies. Then at 1st the culture was completely different. Try & settle a claim as quickly as possible to avoid the client anymore grief. This applied in particular to those claims involving injury.

The ethos began to change in the late 70's & I left for simular reasons as yourself. I have since devoted much of my professional life taking these buggers on & in trying to make people aware of their disgraceful conduct & I wanted to sleep at nights

It does seem to me sometimes that even after the endowment & pension selling scandals many still think insurance companies are to be trusted. They are no better then the banks. Just look at the mounting scandal involving the selling of PPI much of it by the banks.

[JonCris]

H again un1boy

Forgot to mention your revelation punches a bit of a hole in their so called "ethical" trading policy.

[un1boy]

Hi JonChris, haven't been getting my updates to this thread. Co-operative Financial Services (CFS) that own CIS and the Co-op bank aren't ethical at all.

The CIS is currently restructuring its claims centre too and I worked with them for a while too. I got fed up with telling customers that engineers would be coming out and then having them call back and say that they had been waiting 6 weeks for one. Also, customers with a Comprehensive policy who's cars were written off and had no third party involved weren't entitled to a courtesy car - people kept telling me they were told they were entitled to one when they took the policy out (which I can believe, because I only learnt that 2 weeks after joining claims - and I was selling the insuracne policies).

I had no problem with people abusing me down the phone, because I actually agreed with most of them. I just got fed up with the company doing nothing to help customers when they most needed us. It just became too much - no one is made responsible for anything, or anything problems - they are simply promoted.

They'd do anything not to pay out on a claim, and have advisers on 11k a year, with no expertese or training handling people's claims and having to make decisions on whether or not to pay out etc. This to me is completely unacceptable and isn't fair on the customers or advisers, who had no say when the company decided to turn them into claim's handlers. One day they were just registering claims, the next they were handling them.

You should have seen the brief that was issued in response to the OFT's ruling about credit card charges and the reasons behind it. How it meant a massive loss of income to the bank and what we were and were not allowed to say to customers.

Oh, and they (CIS) had thousands of FSA breaches on the life side of things, but none were fed back to the advisers invovled as there were too many for them to get through. I will NEVER invest any of my money or take products with CIS.

Anyway, like I say, I don't want to go on about how bad they are as this doesn't help with the main reason for this thread. I'm just trying to say that you need to keep on at them and just take them to court if necessary.

[un1boy]

Originally Posted by Chrissielr

Good idea, will look into it.

Hi, what happened in the end with your claim? Did they pay out in the end?

[Chrissielr]

Hi there un1boy

Many thanks for your thought provoking posts.

CIS still repudiate the claim and it is now going to the Ombudsman. Strangely enough they have now suggested my mother gets an independent report, I can't quite understand why they would be suggesting this as surely they will disgree if the independent concurs with the implosion damage.

Anyway, I do have faith in teh Ombudsman from past experience, let's just hope it gets sorted out soon.

[un1boy]

Hi Chrissie,

I'm sorry that you are having problems with CIS. I have never had any dealings with the FO so please let me know how it goes.

I will see if there is anything I can do/find out which will help your situation and get back to you.

[craigwalton]

From my dealings with the FOS, If they have an Insurer report stating damage as wear & tear, and a policyholders report stating accidental damage then they will go with the policyholder.

[un1boy]

Well, that's a good sign then!

It's goos to see them working for the consumer on the insurance side at least!

[Chrissielr]

Just a quick update. On the advice of her lawyer my Mum wrote one last letter to CIS askeing them to reconsider their decision before sending off the Ombudsman application form last week. On Tuesday, along with th