Insurance selling

[robert_harper_2000]

When selling insurance what guidelines do they have to follow? Is there any law that actually says they must explain it properly or show what it covers etc etc

This is for a holiday that is covered by that atta or something?

Thanks, any information or ideas would be very appreciated.

Rob

[JonCris]

They do it's in the "small print" What's the problem?

Also beware "ABTA" have lost their OFT approval kite mark because they will no longer compensate travellers who have lost their deposits or full payments through the theft/fraud of the ABTA operater

[benjee]

Originally Posted by robert_harper_2000

When selling insurance what guidelines do they have to follow? Is there any law that actually says they must explain it properly or show what it covers etc etc

This is for a holiday that is covered by that atta or something?

Rob

To my knowledge any Insurance product has to be from a Company that is authorised and regulated by the Vinancial Services Authority (FSA). Most Travel companies now use Insurers instead of their own cheap cover, eg Thomson use AXA, Post Office use NU etc....
The product has to be to your demands & needs (what you want).
It should tell you this in the 'about us' section of the policy, or usually found in the policy booklet.

[robert_harper_2000]

Well I have this company that is automatically adding a cancellation insurance in the price. Also when you call up to book another personal insurance is added - which I was told is compulsory!!!

If you read the start of the magazine it says optional extras see page 174-175. Turn to 175 and it mentions very briefly about it is important and to turn to page 172 for details see the details and after lots of reading it mentions you can cancel within 14 days. Surely this isn't fair!!!

I need to have some legal jargon to write a letter to this firm, I want terms made more clear it is ripping ppl off!!

I want something in writing from somewhere reputatable saying more about
'The product has to be to your demands & needs (what you want)'

[JonCris]

The only compulsory insurance I know of is RTA vehicle & EL employers liabilty insurance As I understand it no other insurance is "compulsory" no matter what they claim

Know it's a pain but it would help if you could type, cut & paste the TC's.

[robert_harper_2000]

The point is that the t&cs are very hard to find out about but also the terms do say that for the full terms you get a copy when you have paid for the holiday it's not on the website it's not in the magzine. You have to buy the holiday for the terms!!

I never took out the personal insurance but I'm not sure if I took the cancellation insurance - Could ask for a Data Protection Act. I'm doing this as I think they should be made to make it clear.

This company is giving you a price with the cancellation charge included and doesn't mention anything about the fact it can be cancelled except in the small print - surely unfair?

[robert_harper_2000]

When you book you must pay the applicable Initial Payment shown. This Initial Payment includes your subscription to Hoseasons Cancellation Insurance and your Personal Holiday Insurance together with your Booking Deposit as part-payment towards the cost of your holiday. If you do not wish to take out our Personal Holiday Insurance you must tick the opt out box on our online booking screen or indicate this on your booking form

[JonCris]

I understand the OFT have already ruled against the "opt out" clause & now require that the consumer must "opt in"

Also if they don't offer Insurance TC's pre booking at the very least upon request then that also invalidates their TC's as being in breach of the Unfair Contract Terms

[robert_harper_2000]

Well they offer some terms and I called them as their magazines say the terms are available upon request. When I called them I was told they can only be given out once I have signed up!!!

I want to take this further. I need to know if the cancellation can be forced?

All I can find is the following:
- per Short break including VAT and protection against cancellation*

-*CANCELLATION - We hope that you do not have to cancel your holiday, but if you do, one of the advantages of booking with us is that you are protected against cancellation by our booking conditions. You will find full details on pages 160-161

Pages 160-161 a mass of small print - still not saying anything about cost?

[robert_harper_2000]

Insurance

Most tour operators require you to have adequate insurance cover when you book. You can choose to take the tour operator's insurance, arrange your own, or take the travel agent's. Remember, though, to shop around and compare prices and level of cover first.

It is illegal for a travel agent to insist that you take their 'in-house' insurance in order to qualify for a discount on a holiday.

Make sure your insurance gives you enough cover, and that special circumstances, such as car hire and medical expenses, are fully provided for. In some cases, you may need to take out extra insurance cover locally– for example, car hire in the USA. Ensure that you get full details from your travel agent.

Remember to take your European Health Insurance Card (EHIC) when travelling within EU countries. Forms are available at your local post office, by telephoning 0845 6062030 or by visiting the EHIC website. Old and revised versions of the E111 are no longer valid.

If you are worried that you may have to cancel a holiday, you might want to consider taking out cancellation insurance.

[JonCris]

Originally Posted by robert_harper_2000

Well they offer some terms and I called them as their magazines say the terms are available upon request. When I called them I was told they can only be given out once I have signed up!!!

I want to take this further. I need to know if the cancellation can be forced?

All I can find is the following:
- per Short break including VAT and protection against cancellation*

-*CANCELLATION - We hope that you do not have to cancel your holiday, but if you do, one of the advantages of booking with us is that you are protected against cancellation by our booking conditions. You will find full details on pages 160-161

Pages 160-161 a mass of small print - still not saying anything about cost?

If they won't provide when requested the full T's & C's prior to your booking then they have no valid contract. Check out the Unfair Contract Act & you'll find the section which deals with this type of conduct.

The travel industry really do think they are above the law. You would think the constant hiding they get in the high court would tell them something wouldn't you!

[robert_harper_2000]

I'm tempted to book a holiday with a credit card and then order a refund after the holiday as it was an unfair contract etc. That'll teach them!

They could argue untrained staff etc - I'm going to get a recording and was thinking of writing a letter and asking for t&cs?

I've got print outs of unfair terms etc but would be nice for someone to help me along - cheerz

[JonCris]

You could but that would be daft don't you agree

The staff training is of no concern to you & if they were to argue such they would be shooting themselves in the foot. As a defence by them it's a complete non-starter

Why do you want a copy of their T&C's now? Your argument is that you have never been given access so now you don't care what they claim

I would just go straight to writing in pretty much the same way as you would an action against the banks.

1st I would (if you haven't already) pay £10 & make a S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). Being a holiday company & not used to dealing with such a request will probably cause a bit of panic. One can only hope so & might cause them to come to their senses

Don't at this stage start quoting the Act in detail just refer to it in general in that you will relying on it as being part of your grounds for claim. Let the silly buggers read it themselves & find out

[robert_harper_2000]

Well I don't think I have paid for a holiday with their personal insurance but maybe I have unwittingly paid a cancellation insurance. A S.A.R. request would tell me about that holiday but my Dads holiday were going back 20 years! I don't think they would have on file his payments etc.

They do send out T&Cs once you have paid for the holiday. Does this count?

I really want to stop the company forcing the insurance without telling people. There are only 2 companies running these types of holidays. I am thinking of using them for my holiday anyway so I can use my holiday as an example.

I am thinking of booking the holiday and explaining I don't want the personal insurance - this seemed to be possible as I was booking through a friend who works in a travel agency. I do recall how she told the company 'the customer already has cover and does require your insurance' she was to repeat this 3 times!

I do not know about the cancellation charge.

What is the best way to get them/?

I have since been to another travel agency and asked for prices and the company tried giving me one price. I asked for a breakdown ' it covers everything ' again a breakdown please. ' Oh OK it covers insurance bla bla ' then the travel company said you do not need their insurance ( I started to think wow at last some concern ) ours is much cheaper!!! Arrrrrrgh
Also I asked her to say i request the T&Cs and she was told no - only once holiday has been paid for!!

Advice?

ps - my claim could only be the cancellation charge from previous holiday. I want to make them change their ways and make sure they can't add insurance automatically without finding out if it is suitable or not etc.
My claim would not be a high figure and might be paid off. Should I make it £5,000 - probably forcing court action and thus a ruling?

pps - as they only denied terms over the phone - they could deny ever saying that couldn't they? Although thinking about it it was done via a travel agent who phoned them so I have proof via her - if she remembers!??

[JonCris]

No it does not as your effectivley being forced to buy something sight unseen. If requested you MUST be given sight of the T&C before purchase. Otherwise they cannot enforce their T&C.

You can't require a consumer to pay for something then afterwards say these are or terms & if you don't like them too bad!

[robert_harper_2000]

How do I go about stopping these companies? I am as I said about to book a holiday with them, I was thinking of using this an example.

Either
1. book with my friend at the agency, she will automatically take off the rip-off insurance and make sure it is taken off. Also there is another damage waiver but it is non-refundable however if I pay a security deposit it is refundable ( only says this in the small print ). Lastly this cancellation insurance do I try and get her to get them to take it off - I think they will be reluctant or do I leave it and I'll have something to claim and thus start court about.
I think I would be better trying to cancel the cancellation charge and argue after holiday??

2. Book with another travel agency and be ripped- off in all the babove areas?

How what which why - how do I go about kicking up a stink!