£35 admin charge for changing address! ***WON***

[stephen66]

Hello,

I am with Budget car insurance. I moved house and the premium dropped because of ym new address, however Budget have said they will knock £35 off the refund as an admin fee. How can it cost £35 to change my address on their computer? This is outrageous.

Since the OFT ruled that bank charges were unfair, surely this must also apply to insurance companies. I wrote to Budget and they will not move on the issue. I contacted the Financial Services Ombudsman but they have sent me two letters saying my case has not been assigned yet due to a backlog of complaints.

Rather than wait for ther FOS, I would like to go to the small claims court. Can anyone advise me on what to type into the moneyclaim web site?

Budget have told me they will not quote for me next year because I have complained. This does not seem fair either, however I would not use them again if I could, and I would advise everyone else to do the same. Shortly after I started the policy, within the cooling-off period, Nationwide began their car insurance offer. I was unable to switch because Budget wanted to charge me large cancellation fees. They said the fees were imposed by the underwriter. The underwriter sent me a letter saying that they impose no such fees, so Budget were lying! I complained to the FOS but I was amazed they did not act. Their attitude was that any saving with Nationwide was "speculative" and that I had car insurance with Budget, if I really wanted to cancel I could have paid, and what was I complaining about?

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

	Car Insurance

[tigger26]

Hi

amongst the documentation you received from Budget, you would have got a Keyfacts about our Insurance Services sheet, which the FSA require them to give to you.

Under section 4 - What will you have to pay us for our services?
An arrangement fee of £20
Cancellation fee of £55 if cancelled by either party 14 days after issue of policy documents.
Administration fee of £20 for all policy amendments.
Default fee of £20
Cert reprint fee of £15

So I think you have a point to draw their attention to, as they've not cancelled your insurance, they've amended it.

[Janet-M]

I would just write to them informing them of your new address and pointing out that they have a duty to process personal information accuratley under the data protection act

keeping a copy of the letter

this of course is my opinion and informal advice

[jonni2bad]

This is perhaps a tricky one. The change has resulted in a service by the insurer (the service being to alter their records) but did this also result in the issuing of any new documents?

A charge for services (real ones, not the type the banks pretend they are giving) is different to a penalty for a breach of conditions.

However, I do think that £35 is extortionate for the service, even if they did have to issue new documents.

I have today changed my car and Lloyds wanted £15.75, which covers their time in quoting, altering and issuing a new insurance document etc. I'm happy with that, but I wouldn't have been with £35.

The other thing to be aware of is that you seem keen to start legal action in the courts, but you have not mentioned any letters you might have sent which stipulate the refund you require, or that give notice to the legal action - i.e. similar to our Prelim and LBA letters.

It is very important that you do show a court that you have given ample opportunity to resolve the issue without their intervention.

I suspect that, right or wrong, if you reach the stage of sending an LBA, they might well offer a goodwill settlement.

	Small Claims kit by Lawpack Sue your bank as many times as you like with just one Small Claims kit by Lawpack. Follow this link to read the review. The kit contains everything you need: instruction manual, templates, examples, forms and a comprehensive CDRom. Applies to England and Wales

[stephen66]

Thanks for the advice. I have sent a couple of letters to Budget but they have not had the response I had hoped for. That's why I think I need a more "legal" letter. I have been waiting a couple of months of the FOS to assign the case to someone which is why I am gettign impatient. I will try writing to Budget again, but I would be grateful for a template letter that is a bit more legal than my efforts to date. Thanks.

	The Financial Ombudsman Service For the most part, don't bother. The Ombudsman is an industry arranged service which is under-resourced, takes too long, lacks clear transparency. You have no idea what evidence the FOS has received from the bank or how your complain has really been handled. The FOS is the preferred complaints route for the banking industry. The county court is to be preferred by consumers for its speed, openness, the quality of its awards and also because it will award 8% interest on top of any damages won by you. The Ombudsman should normally be used to solving little technical difficulties or customer service problems which you have expereinced with your bank.

[AndyE]

Is the charge purely an admin charge or has the move to a different address resulted in a change of premium and they've charged the admin fee and premium hike as one item?

[stephen66]

Originally Posted by AndyE

Is the charge purely an admin charge or has the move to a different address resulted in a change of premium and they've charged the admin fee and premium hike as one item?

The change of address has resulted in a drop in the premium, so they have refunded the premium less this charge. They did not offer this refund automatically; it took three letters after I had moved before they sent the cheque!

[mooreda]

Why insure with Budget in the first place - you're always best going direct to an insurer such as Churchill/Directline/Norwich Union etc and not via a broker - it's best to cut out the middle man - trust me!

[stephen66]

Originally Posted by mooreda

Why insure with Budget in the first place - you're always best going direct to an insurer such as Churchill/Directline/Norwich Union etc and not via a broker - it's best to cut out the middle man - trust me!

At the time the search engines found their quote to be cheapest and I did not realise they were brokers.

[mooreda]

cheap isn't alway the best - at the moment, as an ex-claims bod - I would recommend Barclays Home Insurance that's underwritten by Gresham Insurance (actually Norwich Union). The policy is very comprehensive and also includes additional cover that a lot of policies don't! For example, my insurance (I have BDGS/CNTS/P Possessions - the cover includes up to £500 for the failure of Freezers/Fridges plus much more all at a competitive price. At the moment Barclays will guarantee to beat your quote. PS you can cancel Home Insurance at any time - not just at the renewal date.

	Household Insurance Click link to open in new window.

[Trojan1401]

Unfortunately many of the personal lines providers now make adjustment charges which should be set out in the policy documentation, their excuse being that it costs money to make adjustments & issue revised documentation.

In the case of direct Underwriters, in order to compete with the open market with premiums, their margins ( operating costs / profit etc ) are kept to a bare minimum so increase profit by charging for "additional services "

Where brokers are concerned, they are remunerated by way of commission from Underwriters usually a percentage of the policy premium with an annual bonus ( can't use the word overrider now ) depending upon the profitability of the broker's account with that particular insurer. Their "admin" charges are therefore in addition their commissions from Insurers. Such additional costs are there purely to enhance profit but are not illegal albeit probably unethical as they are a charge for a service given.

Yes they are a rip off but this is why ( and many will not agree with me on this one ) that personal lines car insurance is so cheap to buy in the first place.

Oh dear - may have started a bit of a discussion point here !!!!

	Car Insurance

[stephen66]

Originally Posted by mooreda

cheap isn't alway the best ... PS you can cancel Home Insurance at any time - not just at the renewal date.

I'd agree that with Budget yopu get what you pay for: little!

I could cancel the policy but considering they charge £35 to change address, they charge considerably more to cancel, so I'll sit it out until renewal!

[Stopthethieves]

Is this all legal?

Seems ridiculous that then can get away with it?

If changing you address on the documents is a requirement and you are forced to pay to do so, surely you can cancel and get a partial refund???

I see this as anti competitive. Would they of charged if you had moved next door and the premium was the same?

Regards

[stephen66]

Originally Posted by Stopthethieves

Is this all legal?

Seems ridiculous that then can get away with it?

If changing you address on the documents is a requirement and you are forced to pay to do so, surely you can cancel and get a partial refund???

I see this as anti competitive. Would they of charged if you had moved next door and the premium was the same?

Regards

Is this all legal? That's what I came to these forums to find out!

If you move next door, they will charge an admin fee for typing the new address into their computer. If you cancel, the problem is they hit you with an even bigger cancellation fee!

[Trojan1401]

I'm afraid it is as these charges are set out in their wordings.

It is an admin fee for alteration to the policy irrespective as to whether the change results in an adjustment to the premium.

Dick Turpin wouldn't have got away with this !!!

[Rob S]

Surely it would be worthwhile asking them for a full breakdown of how they arrived at a figure of £35 to effect this change on your policy?

[jonni2bad]

Originally Posted by Gary P

I'm afraid it is as these charges are set out in their wordings....

Perhaps you missed the point about bank charges These are printed in their terms and conditions too, but it doesn't mean they are lawful.

The point in question really is based on the following: Is this a regulated agreement (i.e. Consumer Credit Act) and does it cost them the amount they charge? Even if it doesn't, this issue has not been dealt with yet by our members, so you might be breaking new ground.

I don't for one minute believe it is a fair charge, but that's just a personal viewpoint. If you challenge it in the same way we challenge bank charges, you might be lucky and get them to reduce the amount, but you might have to go to court. If so, are you sure that the law backs you up?

	Bank Charges You should have started your claim for your bank charges by now. Don't wait. You should send your bank a Subject Acess Request asking for all personal data they hold on you - not just statements. You should calculate all of your bank charges and related interest as far back as 1995. You should send your bank a demand for a refund giving them 7 days. You should commence your legal action adding 8% statutory interest. If you wait for the outcome of the test case, you may not be able to claim like this. you may not be able to claim interest. You may only be offered the difference between the charge and the OFT "fair charge". The repayment scheme will try to limit you to refinds from 2001 only. A repayment scheme will not deal with any bank charges related defaults on the credit register whereas in a court action you can ask for these to be removed and to be compensated for the damage caused to you and your family by them. You should also write to the bank and to the CRA and put all charges related credit entries in disupte and warn them that you will want them removed from the Register when the test case is over. Warn them also that you are likely to be seeking compensation for these wrongful data entries. Full and final settlement Have you previously accepted a partial repayment of your bank charges in full settlement? You will still be able to claim the rest of your money back after the Test case is decided. Get all your information back to 1995 and put in your claim now.

[Rob S]

The charge is way over the top. Privilige Insurance charged me £15 when I changed address earlier in the year. It might be worthwhile checking with other insurers to see what their charges are.

[jo5ephedward5]

My brother has just been charged £386 to cancel his policy with Budget - see the link in the top of my siganture - they wont put in it writing and they just keep refering him to the T&C saying its their entitlment etc - i'd never use them!

[craigwalton]

The charge is legal I am afraid.

With regards to the complaint against banks this is a result of a breach of contract. As you are moving house you have not broken any contract.

However, it is extortionate - I suspect you are paying an administration charge for the insurers and the brokers....