Any ideas?

[Mrs Charlton]

Hiya,

after getting well and truly hacked off with the ever worsening money situation I am gone through everything with a fine toothed comb and found we are being overcharged massively for our car insurance, I have sent them a letter today, what does everyone think, does it sound ok and will we be successful? I wrote this as hubby isn't great with confrontation which is why its been allowed to go on for so long

RE: Car Policy XXXXXXXXX
WITHOUT PREJUDICE AND CONFIDENTIAL.
Dear Sir / Madam,

I find myself yet again writing to sort out the no claims entitlement on my car policy with yourselves.
This is now my THIRD letter to you regarding this matter, I have enclosed the previous letters for your perusal again.

When I began my policy with yourselves I had 1 years no claims, but no proof to hand as I had changed insurance companies during mid policy so had to send away for the information (please see photocopy from Asda insurance labelled ‘Proof 1’). I then sent this to you with the letter enclosed dated 6th November 2005.

I was still waiting for information from Direct Line insurance, which I had to harass them for and did not arrive with me until early February 2006. I then sent this (see Direct Line photocopy enclosed labelled as ‘Proof 2’) with the letter enclosed dated February 11th 2006.

My premium has stayed the same ever since, despite you now having proof that I have not made a claim with any insurance company since February 2004, so my no claims bonus is now 2 years!!

I find it rather disgraceful that a 27 year old married man driving a family car who parks in a garage overnight is paying more for their insurance than a friend, who is a new driver and has a newer and more expensive spec of car!

The last time I telephoned your company in March this year I was assured that my premium would be reduced and I would see a change soon. As I have been extremely busy since that time with my newly diagnosed disabled daughter I have only just seen that the amount is still a shocking £70+ per month, that is disgraceful!!!

I expect the premium to be reduced with effect immediately, and not only that, but I expect the difference to be refunded to me from March this year onwards when I was given a guarantee that this would happen a.s.a.p.

As a father of a disabled child and with new baby due in November I cannot afford to keep paying for the administrative incompetence of Churchill insurance. If this matter is not resolved to my complete satisfaction I shall seek advice with regard to claiming back the excessive amounts charged unnecessarily.

You will notice that this letter is headed ‘Without prejudice and confidential’ which means it cannot be submitted for evidence in a courtroom, but be advised I know my rights under the Consumer Credit Act and shall take whatever action is necessary to recoup my loss.

Just as a matter of interest- I processed a quote on your website today to see what it would say regarding the premium I should be paying:
YOUR ANNUAL CAR INSURANCE QUOTE £414.75
ALTERNATIVELY PAY ONLY £36.96 PER MONTH.

As you can see the amount quoted is DRASTICALLY less than what I have been paying to you all along.
My monthly direct debit to yourselves in currently £76.75.
£76.75 (current amount) - £36.96 (what I SHOULD be paying) = £39.79 EXTRA!!!!

I shall be generous and only take this £36.96 as being the amount I should be paying as of March this year, 2yrs and 1 month after my only claim was made with a previous insurer, and after I spoke to your advisor on the telephone who assured me the premium would be reduced greatly.

Therefore, since March there has been 5 payments that have been grossly over what I should be paying.
5 months at £39.79 per month is £198.95 OVERPAYMENT. I expect this amount refunded to me as soon as possible, and the policy premium to be amended accordingly.

I do not want to have to contact you again about this matter, as I think 3 letters is quite enough correspondence from myself, particularly as the past 2 have been ignored. It is rather lucky that I had not sent the original documentation from Asda insurance or from Direct Line insurance isn’t it or they would have been lost!

Please understand how angered and frustrated I am with this matter and only out of sheer lack of free time am I giving you the opportunity once more to rectify the situation before I feel compelled to commence action.
Most Sincerely,

I know its not great but I'm so fed up with it all that I think I got in a bit of a rant. Do you think it will work though?

Cheers,

Trace. x

[callumsgran]

Sounds good to me trace, worth a try anyway!!! have you renewed with them at all? you might want to add that you will not be renewing with them when the time comes also! good luck m'dear!

[Mrs Charlton]

We are due to renew in october i think, needless to say if they dont sort this out sharpish then we shall be going elsewhere, its such a pain as house insurance is with them too grrrrrrrrrrrrr. LOL.

[JonCris]

Remove the "without predujice & confidential" heading you don't need it & you may wish to use your letter in any future legal claim. Also some unqualified clerk will get the idea to put it on their reply.

You could close with somethin like this:

"Notwithstanding the aforegoing I reserve the right to undertake any legal actions which are available to me now or in the future"

In other words sort it or I going to sue you b***ers

[callumsgran]

Trace, dont ever accept an insurance companies premium at renewal, you will always get cheaper quotes by shopping around! if you cant ring them telling them you HAVE had a cheaper quote and they will match it! guaranteed!! i do it every year!

[Mrs Charlton]

Really? See I don't drive myself and its always been left to Rob (hubby) to sort out....(see how well thats gone eh? LOL). I had already sent the letter but if they come back with anything less than glee-inducing I shall send them it again with the additions and alteration recommended, and I shall delete the without prejudice bit too (thanks JonCris ).
I thought you had to put WP&C if you wanted to be a bit threatening and ranty thats why I put it on LOL. Oh well, you live and learn.

[Trojan1401]

Hi Trace,

I've read through your thread & so that it is clear in my mind, can you confirm that when you accepted the quote, that you had 1 year NCB i.e you had been with that particular insurer for 12 months continuously before accepting the policy from the new insurer. You should therefore have received a renewal notice from the incumbent which would show a 1 year NCB entitlement.

If however you changed insurance policies mid year then any time accrued would not count towards any new insurer. You must complete a full year with one insurer to qualify for an additional year of NCB ( subject to no claim ).

Have you since provided the required proof to the insurers ?

As a footnote, rates are calculated on a number of factors such as postcode, make & model, year of vehicle, NCB, previous claims & age etc. However, the personal lines market is extremely competitive for motor insurance at present especially now that access is a lot easier via the internet. It does pay to shop around but please read the terms of the quote as not all of the cheap policies are as Comprehensive as those from the well known brands.

If you can advise further about your personal circumstances, I'll see if I can elaborate further.

[Mrs Charlton]

Originally Posted by Gary P

Hi Trace,

I've read through your thread & so that it is clear in my mind, can you confirm that when you accepted the quote, that you had 1 year NCB i.e you had been with that particular insurer for 12 months continuously before accepting the policy from the new insurer. You should therefore have received a renewal notice from the incumbent which would show a 1 year NCB entitlement.

Yep. We were with Asda Insurance (which is with whom the claim in Feb 2004 was made), they wanted to charge extortionate rates at renewal so we swapped at renewal to Direct Line. Stayed with Direct Line for around 8 months then a friend recommended Churchill. Got a quote off the Churchill site and it was great, rang them and explained the no claims situation, that technically there hadn't been a claim made for over a year but hadn't been with Direct Line insurer for a full year period as yet and was assured that as long as we obtained proof from both insurers that no claims had been ade since the claim in Feb 2004 and sent it asap we would be fine.

If however you changed insurance policies mid year then any time accrued would not count towards any new insurer. You must complete a full year with one insurer to qualify for an additional year of NCB ( subject to no claim ).

This is what I suspected but they assured us it would be fine, otherwise we wouldn't have bothered changing insurers, I have from asda that shows policy start date (28th Jan 2004) and end date (22nd Feb 2005) and claim details (Hit object Feb 2004 claim made). I also have from Direct Line a letter that states
"We can confirm as per your request that during the time your policy was in force (Feb 05 - Sept 05 inclusive) no claims were made with us" .

Have you since provided the required proof to the insurers ?

We have sent the proof they requested (twice before) and they have completely ignored us. My argument is how can they go back on their word after assuring it it would be ok? False promises that have cost us an extortionate amount of money.

As a footnote, rates are calculated on a number of factors such as postcode, make & model, year of vehicle, NCB, previous claims & age etc.

We are lucky enough to live in a lovely area, car is kept in a garage, its a scenic, year 2000, only claim made february 2004 when my husband swerved to avoid a bloody pigeon in the road and went into the curb. Can you believe it? That pigeon caused over a grand of damage! The airbags went off, the wing was ruined....etc etc. Its funny now but at the time I couldda throttled him. LOL. Husband is now 27, he was 24 when he made the claim.

However, the personal lines market is extremely competitive for motor insurance at present especially now that access is a lot easier via the internet. It does pay to shop around but please read the terms of the quote as not all of the cheap policies are as Comprehensive as those from the well known brands.

We always go for fully comp as we have our car on Hire Purchase and its a term of the contract of having the car. Plus, with a husband who prioritises vermin over our car....LOL. Seriously though, Churchill seemed flawless when I went through the policy / excesses / stipulations with a fine toothed comb and they assured us as long as we got it in writing from previous insurers that we hadn't made a claim whilst with them that everything would be ok.

If you can advise further about your personal circumstances, I'll see if I can elaborate further.

God yes advise away, I really want to know where we stand with all this. When I processed the new quote to add onto the letter I sent I input all the data, and when I entered the 2 years no claims it seemed to disregarded it as a claim had been made within past 3 years...but the amount stayed the same.
So I still think we have been overcharged drastically.
The proof we have from Asda insurance states when the only claim was made (Feb 2004).
I have just processed another quote on the chuchill site (for fun LOL) with the claim info but no NCB to see what it says and its still over 18 quid less per month than what we're paying, I just don't understand.

[Mrs Charlton]

Also, as of next month we would have been with Churchill for 1 year and will have 1 years no claims with them, so have just done another quote (I know I know...I'm obsessed LOL) with 1 years NCB and that means we'll only be paying 40 quid per month, 36 quid less than what we're paying now anyway. I still think however we can hold them to their word and should be able to claim the money back that they have overcharged us by.
I blame this site...its sending me claim-crazy. LOL.

[JonCris]

I realise this doesn't help your current situation but would everyone STOP taking the word of insurance company clerks. If they get it wrong they WILL deny it as there job could be on the line.
If you must or need to agree cover over the phone get their fax number & write a brief fax confirming the conversation & what was agreed etc. Then fax it & they cannot claim different later. I'm been with the same broker for about 6 years & even they have said one thing & tried to claim the said another but because I ALWAYS confirm everything in writing they have on each occasion had to admit defeat.

[Mrs Charlton]

Originally Posted by JonCris

I realise this doesn't help your current situation but would everyone STOP taking the word of Information Commissioner clerks. If they get it wrong they WILL deny it as there job could be on the line.
If you must or need to agree cover over the phone get their fax number & write a brief fax confirming the conversation & what was agreed etc. Then fax it & they cannot claim different later. I'm been with the same broker for about 6 years & even they have said one thing & tried to claim the said another but because I ALWAYS confirm everything in writing they have on each occasion had to admit defeat.

Most definitely SHALL be doing this in future or recording all phonecalls. This is 2 seperate occasions by 2 seperate people that we were assured everything would be okeydokey, and nothing has ever been done. I think since about May this year I have gotten into the habit of writing down times / dates / content of phone conversations with companies just so I can refer back to it when I need to, just a shame I wasn't so 'on the ball' back then (because we hadn't been really shafted by any companies til May-time).

[benjee]

Originally Posted by Mrs Charlton

Got a quote off the Churchill site and it was great, rang them and explained the no claims situation, that technically there hadn't been a claim made for over a year but hadn't been with Direct Line insurer for a full year period as yet and was assured that as long as we obtained proof from both insurers that no claims had been ade since the claim in Feb 2004 and sent it asap we would be fine.

Theres your proof.
All Major Insurers record phone calls, so all you have to request is that they do a tape pull of the call when you spoke to the advisor (traceable from the original quote call). You can request a copy of the tape if needed under S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). If the advisor stated it, then they should stand by it once you sent them the relevant copies. If they say the call was not 'taped' then in many cases they will stand by the Customers word for goodwill and to avoid badface.

On a footnote, most insurers will refuse to accept a part year no claims bonus. This is underwriting criteria, so the underwriter will have the final say on yes or no to the Direct Line letter.

[Trojan1401]

From what I can deduce, a claim was made in Feb 2004 when if the insurer had paid out & no recovery available then your NCD would be reduced at the next renewal. I am assuming that you would therefore have Nil entitlement as it appears you had less that 2 years NCD ( Unprotected ) during that year.

Any subsequent policy(ies) would not accrue an NCD entitlement unless that policy had ran its term of 12 months without claim or unrecoverable loss.

If a policy is cancelled mid-term, you do not accrue any NCD or part NCD ( unless that is now something new in the personal lines world ) and any subsequent policy taken out would be on Nil NCD.

The advice you were given does appear to be incorrect by the "advisor" but even if you do get a recording of the conversation, I doubt it would do much good. Unfortunatley, these direct writers do not seem to employ qualified insurance personnel at the front line who actually have indepth knowledge of underwriting criteria. It's the old " well the computer says so" syndrome.

I'm afraid it could be a case of having to accept the situation as it is however do write to the call centre manager / Underwriting manager again detailing your complaint & requesting that they write off the difference due to the misunderstanding and/or misrepresentation by a member of their staff.

If my memory serves me right, Churchill is Underwritten by UK Insurance which is wholly owned by RBS - Worth checking on your correspondence to check who the policies are "Underwritten" by.

One final thing, all policies sold are subject to the rules / regulations of the Financial Services Authority. It may be worth contacting them about your complaint. Ultimately, these guys have the power to withdraw trading licences.

Best of luck.