Hit and run driver

[small paul]

Hi all. Could do with a bit of help here. My car was hit from behind whilst stationary at a roundabout. The other driver apologised and suggested we pull the cars to a safer place to exchange details. Seemed reasonable, so I agreed. Unfortunately once I had pulled off the roundabout at the first exit he disappeared in a different direction. I did manage to get his reg no. Reported all details to police and my insurers (I'm TPF&T), who gave me the other driver's insurance company and policy number from his reg. However they are refusing to discuss the claim as their insured has not notified them and my insurer's are uninterested as they are not liable due to my TPF&T cover. What do i do?

[Monty2007]

Originally Posted by small paul

Hi all. Could do with a bit of help here. My car was hit from behind whilst stationary at a roundabout. The other driver apologised and suggested we pull the cars to a safer place to exchange details. Seemed reasonable, so I agreed. Unfortunately once I had pulled off the roundabout at the first exit he disappeared in a different direction. I did manage to get his reg no. Reported all details to police and my insurers (I'm TPF&T), who gave me the other driver's insurance company and policy number from his reg. However they are refusing to discuss the claim as their insured has not notified them and my insurer's are uninterested as they are not liable due to my TPF&T cover. What do i do?

Firstly you should ensure that the Police prosecute him from leaving the scene of an accident and possibly other crimes (dangerous driving), he may also have been over the dink drive limit.

If a criminal prosecution is brought then you have a better chance of remedy with respect to damages.

Where there any witnesses? They would be very useful if available.

[small paul]

Thanks for the quick reply.The police are simply saying that someone will be assigned to the case but that doesn't help me in the short term. Biggest concern I have at the moment is that the boot lid on my hatchback car now won't close, making it insecure. I've done my best to tie it down but it's still obviously open and I don't live in the sort of area where this will go unnoticed for long. My insurance have enquired about damage to my car and are aware that it is insecure, meaning that should it now get stolen they will refuse to pay for that. I am loathed to get the car repaired at my expense as the cost would probably be greater than the car's value so even if the other driver's insurance accept the claim I probably would be out of pocket. How long does it take police to assign officers to a case such as this?

[small paul]

Sorry, forgot to mention. Only witness was my partner who was in the car with me

[vusys1]

I thought the other insurer would have to deal? they have to get a response from their PH to the allegations but if he fails to respond,they have to deal as RTA insurers i think but not %100

im sure theres some claims guys on the forum who will confirm

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by vusys1

I thought the other insurer would have to deal? they have to get a response from their PH to the allegations but if he fails to respond,they have to deal as RTA insurers i think but not %100

im sure theres some claims guys on the forum who will confirm

The OP has no contract with the other driver's insurer and thus no right to claim directly from them.

He must claim against the other driver - it is then for that driver to rely on his insurer if he so wishes.

As the OP had TPF&T cover, then his own insurer will not pay for the damage to the OP's vehicle and counter-claim from the other driver/insurer.

I suspect that the OP will have to have the vehicle repaired and then sue the other driver for damages in respect of his total costs (including paying for the repair).

[Mossycat]

Originally Posted by Monty2007

Firstly you should ensure that the Police prosecute him from leaving the scene of an accident and possibly other crimes (dangerous driving), he may also have been over the dink drive limit.

If a criminal prosecution is brought then you have a better chance of remedy with respect to damages.

Where there any witnesses? They would be very useful if available.

Firstly, IT IS NOT an offence to leave the scene of an accident providing the driver reports the accident to the police within 24 hours

Secondly, do not suggest that the OP can ensure that a prosecution is brought, the OP has NO SAY WHATSOEVER in whether or not a prosecution is brought or not.

Finally, a criminal prosecution would only have some bearing on the case if it was directly related to or contributed to the accident, ie drink driving etc.

If you are going to offer advice at least get your facts straight first

Mossy

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by Mossycat

Firstly, IT IS NOT an offence to leave the scene of an accident providing the driver reports the accident to the police within 24 hours

Not quite.

As soon as practicable within 24 hours.


People have been convicted for failing to comply with the first part of that phrase.

[small paul]

At the time of my first post 3 days had elapsed without the other driver reporting the crash so he's obviously well outside the 24 hours. I understand the theory of getting my car repaired and suing the other party but I am sure that the repair costs would be greater than the vehicle's value thus making it a write-off. I don't want to spend the £700 I have been quoted to repair the car only to find that the other party is only liable for the value of my vehicle, approx. £400. The other issue is that both myself and my partner have since been to our G.P.'s with neck pain caused by the crash. Also how do I get the other driver's name and address in order to sue him?

[patdavies]

Originally Posted by small paul

Also how do I get the other driver's name and address in order to sue him?

Either ask the police for the other driver's details - as they were not exchanged at the scene or complete a V888 and send it to DVLA to find out who the registered keeper is of the car.

You will need to explain why you want the information and it definitely comes under "reasonable cause".

[flyingdoc]

My advice would be get a solicitor involved at an early stage.
Many solicitors will work on a no win no fee basis and if you present them with this case I have no doubt that they will be happy to take this on.
If you go to a claims company (despite the claims tout crack not all claims companys are sharks - a few actually do care about their clients) check the ministry of justice website to ensure that they are registered and regulated by them.
If you have personal injury then obviously that will need to be included in any potential claim - do not be tempted to use your own insurers lawyers to process this claim, from experience (and I have plenty) they tend not to be as effective as an independant solicitor with no affiliation to the insurance industry.
Make sure you record details of the accident - time date where what time road conditions etc and take pics of the area if you can - these will all help your case.

[DCA-KING]

Have you had any reply from the police chase it up ask what is happening if the dont come up with a good reply tell them you will right to the chief constable with a view to claiming against the force for failing in there duty
also you maybe able to claim from the motor insurance bureau my wife did when she was hit. But beware they only deal with there own solicitors and get one to act for you
They offered the wife 4000 minus there cost of 1000 they only did 4 letters to her but i was told they all part of same company so its out of one hand and into the other
Regards DK

	Car Insurance

[flyingdoc]

Have you had any reply from the police chase it up ask what is happening if the dont come up with a good reply tell them you will right to the chief constable with a view to claiming against the force for failing in there duty

I think you will have a very hard job claiming anything against the police - they do not actually have a duty of care (Alexandrou v Oxford) so there can be no negligence.

As I said before - take advice from a good solicitor.

[DCA-KING]

I think you will find i am right it is not a duty of care it is a
DUTY TO INVESTAGE EVERY CRIME THATS REPORTED
he reported a Fail to stop the have a duty to investage that if they failed they they have failed to carry out there duty
i have a friend whos daughter was attacked he was arrested she had a letter of the CPS that they will not be prosecting
WHAT CAN I DO?
told her write to the CPS and ask how come they dropping the case with a lack of evidence when his DNA was on her jumper
THERE REPLY WHAT JUMPER
now the poo has hit the fan because the pc never sent it off never told the CPS and he has failed in his duty to fully investgate a crime
his jobs on the line
now my wifes friend has just settled out of court for the police failing in there duty
the police forces will only leave a case go to court if they are sued if it was a minor thing if it was something like failing to investagate a crime they have then failed in there job to the public (do they really want that in the press) dont think so they will offer to settle on the night before without prejudice
Trust me i took my employer to court for fail in there duty of care
9.15pm night before court they where at my home with a letter and pen for me to sign after 12 months of waiting for it to go to court and what they offered i had to take because me and my family are right for life they also medically pensioned me off i could have only stayed there for 40yrs that would have given me full pension and service they give me 18yrs and now in my 40s i have my pension for life
how many others working elsewhere would get it
i have already signed up with a national newspaper to tell my story but because of tyhe official secrets act i cannot say anything for 10yrs only 4 to go, And no im not in it for money because what im getting for my story 1000s is off to the speacial care baby unit at my local
Regards DK
TRUST ME SPENT 24 YRS WITH A POLICE FORCE

[flyingdoc]

Your employer HAS a duty of care to their employees - so that has absolutely no relevance to the discussion even if your employer was a police force - they still owe you a duty of care as an employee. there is a world of difference.

The police have no duty of care - see the case sited before - also Osman v Fergusson and most recently Smith v Chief constable of Sussex police where the house of Lords ruled there was no duty of care owed to the public during the course of investigating a crime.

Also you would have to admit - the difference in not following up on a minor RTA, and not fully investigating a serious or even sexual assault is fairly profound.

That is not to say that you cannot make a complaint if you are unsatisfied with the polices actions, but as for threatening to sue them for damages - I dont see that as a runner.

Typing in BLOCK CAPITOLS is not likely to intimidate anyone into changing what is a considered and educated opinion.

However - an opinion is all that it is - albeit with the advantage of some legal training and experience.

Should anyone know better I would be very interested in reading the case references that refute my argument.

[DCA-KING]

you state the Smith v Chief constable of Sussex police case he sued stating that they police (Mr Smith would not be able to establish that action on the part of the police would have prevented the attack)
what this RTA is about he reported the crime to the police if they have done nothing about it investagation wise then they have failed to do there job there duty to investgate a crime that makes them liable
If they investgate and find that no crime has been commited then thats it but if they failed in there duty theres a case
i base my opions on experience what smith sued for a told the cops that they guy may attack him and he did but then again he might not have
this CASE is about has the police done anything about the RTA he reported Ie have the been to see the guy who crashed into him if the answer is NO then they can be held liable
Regards DK
this is advise on what i know

[Monty2007]

Originally Posted by Mossycat

Firstly, IT IS NOT an offence to leave the scene of an accident providing the driver reports the accident to the police within 24 hours

Secondly, do not suggest that the OP can ensure that a prosecution is brought, the OP has NO SAY WHATSOEVER in whether or not a prosecution is brought or not.

Finally, a criminal prosecution would only have some bearing on the case if it was directly related to or contributed to the accident, ie drink driving etc.

If you are going to offer advice at least get your facts straight first

Mossy

The OP stated that the other driver actually drove off after the accident and did not exchange insurance details, in this case the Police would normally look at why this happened and would consider action. I would certainly insist that they invetigated the matter more fully.

I gave my option on the basis that a similar situation happened to me two years ago and the Police did prosecute on this basis (driving away from the scene of an accident). I also served in the police ten years ago.

My advice to you (Mossy) would be to read the OP's statement more thoroughly and try to be a little more polite when other voice an opinion that may not be the same as your own.

[flyingdoc]

You just do not seem to grasp the point which I am trying to make.

1 in order for you to be able to prosecute for negligence you have to show that there was a duty of care in the first place.
2 in both the smith case and the Osman case it was stated that as a matter of policy there could be no duty of care in law.
3 No duty of care - therefore no negligence - therefore no action under the tort of negligence.

The polices failure to investigate a crime may make them liable to disciplinary procedures or censure from the police complaints authority - it does not make them liable under the tort of negligence. It cannot.
Think it through - imagine everyone whose car was stolen, house was burgled, got mugged, attacked, defrauded.....etc

if the police could be sued for negligence each time they didnt investigate any offence fully then the police force would disappear overnight.

Not only that but it would make the police fearful to attend incidents incase they ended up getting sued.

Hence the policy determination that Police do not owe a duty of care...

Read Hill v CC west Yorkshire. This is where the principle was first described. Mr Hill was the father of one of the Y Rippers victims, who tried to sue the police saying that if they had investigated properly his daughter would not have been killed.
This established the precedent regarding duty of care.

[DCA-KING]

Well i suppose you have sued a police force so you must be right??
do you know how many people have sued police forces and had it settled out of court??
do you know why the where sued
let me tell you a case i worked on a guy came home from work
and couldnt park his car in his drive has it was blocked by another car police where called and didnt do anything (other car causing obstruction)
he stated that when his car was not used it was to be parked on the drive, The car was stole insurance refused to pay out has car was not parked on the drive when at home like stated he sued the force for failing to do there job and have a car removed from causing a obstruction
OUTCOME
the force settled out of court all cost
so flying doc maybe you should write to a welsh police force and tell them that you know better than the legal teams they use as they should have had to pay out ME THINK THAT IF THEY WHERE RIGHT AND COULDNT LOSE I THINK THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT IT GO TO COURT DONT YOU??

anyway folks ignore my advice as flying doc knows better
and just on a personal note flying i sued the force i worked for, For PTSD after a incident it 3 yrs to go to court they where arguing was a a first or secondary victim and they where relying on 2 other cases
it was due to go to court and the evening before the day they legal team contacted me settled out of court you know why because it would have set a presidence for other cases thats why they settle out of court
and that reason only if they 100% sure they would win they will go for it
between 2001 and 2005 a force settled 278 claims out of court why because they didnt have flyingdoc on there team
Regards DK

[DCA-KING]

Also all the cases you have listed because the failed to prevent a crime
This thread is about failing to investgate a crime total different
take a look at these
Rigby v. Chief Constable of Northamptonshire [1985] 1 W.L.R. 1242. Further, a police officer may be guilty of a criminal offence if he wilfully fails to perform a duty which he is bound to perform by common law or by statute: see Reg. v. Dytham [1979] Q.B. 722, where a constable was convicted of wilful neglect of duty because, being present at the scene of a violent assault resulting in the death of the victim, he had taken no steps to intervene